Wirepoints President Ted Dabrowski said the unfunded health care liabilities are a real concern for beneficiaries; All of Illinois’ public sector pension funds are $140 billion unfunded and this latest lawsuit highlights additional unfunded taxpayer costs for retiree health care. “It’s a $70 billion shortfall,” he said. “So, it’s back to the same discussion of we need a constitutional amendment to reform all these debts that we have that the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for eventually.”
It is interesting to speculate where this entitled organism, presumably below Medicare age 65, intends to procure her actual medical provision (because, ‘as you know’, insurance does not equate to medical provision). Illinois medical professionals are not necessarily all so idiotic, or in debt, or newly imported immigrants from countries which pay docs&nurses lower gross remuneration per hour worked, as to be instantly and unqualifiedly on call in servitude to organisms such as this one. Of course, she may live in Florida where Illinois taxpayers are on the hook to provide platinum quality ‘insurance’ reimbursement rates for services to 55-year-old… Read more »
if Medicare age, no need for 100% taxpayer funded health insurance
Imagine if at age 55, all Illinois nurses and doctors demanded that Illinois taxpayers paid 100% of their platinum-rated health insurance (yes, including EYECARE, DENTAL, AND EVEN A LIFE INSURANCE KICKER) until Medicare kicked in?
Last edited 4 years ago by susan
Platinum Goose
4 years ago
It would be interesting to know the dollar amount that causes this to be “financially, physically, mentally, in so many ways just devastating”. I’m guessing it’s way less than her 3% COLA increase. It would also be interesting to know her co-pay, co-insurance and drug costs. Probably gets dental and vision included too. My sister in law was complaining how her employer raised her monthly cost for health insurance from $105 to $125. Meanwhile I pay $700+ per month plus co-pays and co-insurance. Some people are out of touch with reality and stuck on their entitlement mindset. It’s time legislators… Read more »
One thing that is not discussed, even here on WP, is how taxpayers in the private sector who fund all this have to defer spending to put money into risky investments in the hope that one day they can retire, and with no COLA. Teachers I have known typically spend every dime they make since they don’t care about investments, healthcare costs, etc. Most live beyond their means because of it. Fairly foolish, indulgent, and oblivious to the real world.
But, that’s the beauty of living in America—being able to live according to your own priorities and standards. We all have the right to “do our thing” to a large extent and heap the consequences of doing so whether good or bad. Personally I favor the mindset of those who live and act modestly and doing so below their financial means. That doesn’t mean I need to fault you if you choose a different path. Just don’t be cruel or dishonest with your fellow man: that’s all I ask.
I basically walk the same “path,” and I confess a major benefit from my wife’s retired teacher health benefit, which I get to keep if she divorces me and runs off with the Marlboro Man. I also understand, however, that those health benefits are way underfunded and (under the law of the state where she taught) those benefits could be terminated. Further, I understand that those benefits are fundamentally unsustainable. There are limited ways of hedging those risks. It may be a greater or lesser risk than faced by Phoenix residents who can’t guarantee their future water or a continuing… Read more »
Having an altruistic point of view here is a little admirable on the surface but really seems more “cute” in the real world in which we have to live. The truth of life everywhere is that if you want more than a subsistence-level of living you have to aggressively seek it, or you will be lost in the sea that is poverty. I, too, wish that every service and consumer item I need were “freely given.” Sadly, that’s a fantasy. With only rare exceptions the bills I am forced to pay seem excessive to me and sometimes brazenly so for… Read more »
You spend $200 for snow removal service? Who exactly are you? Some pension grifter? I own a snowblower like NORMAL MIDDLE CLASS residents and do it myself.
That was my point. I would have taken it more in stride if he’d simply spent another 60-90 seconds cleaning that stoop. It can’t have escaped his notice, yet he purposely chose not to do it. This was the 2nd such event in the last week in that we’ve had two snowfalls of some significant size. I may do it myself again next near to keep from feeling ripped off. Its not a high-tech job nor one requiring any particular training as I see it. Much like you, I suspect, I’d almost rather die doing it that feel ripped off.… Read more »
This sounds to me like “he who takes … gets.” Either that or a lack of inclination to discuss questions that sound like public policy or philosophy. I had hoped to discuss the “what if” question and see if you have any limits at all. That is: is your position screw the taxpayer and continue to enforce the law (as read by Illinois elected judges) and continue to throw up all the roadblocks that can be erected to preserve the status quo — even if that status quo will bankrupt cities and school districts? That position is not far removed… Read more »
In earlier times of modest salaries for teachers and professors, those jobs had status and honor based on the [presumed] selfless dedication of those people to their field and to their students. Similar deference was paid to those who ran charities or volunteers. In our age of higher and often above average salaries for those in such jobs, there is a greater ambiguity about the educators’ and the philanthropists’ motivations. This “evolved” respect, held by myself and others, may or may not be warranted. The behavior of unionized teachers in Chicago reinforces my attitude, however. There’s no proof, of course,… Read more »
Now, your trying to douse me with honey to let the pummeling ensue later. Not gonna happen. People here have cemented attitudes and generally would rather vent than try to solve any given problem with someone having another point of view. Its a drinking-buddy club.
Please, do whatever legal foolishness you prefer. Just don’t ask me to pick up the tab for your foolishness and bad choices. It’s America, pay your own freight.
That’s the difference between defined contribution vs defined benefit. One is bottomless, the other is not. I don’t begrudge pensioners. I can get by just fine on my 401k and IRA funds, but it will require more funding and that the state to treat my retirement in an equitable manner of a state pensioner. I need to save more, so the state should offer me bigger tax deductions on my retirement contributions. The state shouldn’t tax my social security contributions either. I need to work longer, so the state should tax anyone below the minimum SS age of 62 on… Read more »
Actually there is one more difference and a very big one – The public employee defined benefit is guaranteed to the point of private property confiscation (so said the Illinois Supremes in so many words) I agree with your other points, but most people in the private sector would be happy to be simply left alone by the entitlement mentality of public employee unions. So let’s cap it, and call it a day.
nixit
4 years ago
It always amazes me when these hardship pensioner stories come out and the reporters don’t bother to fact check the complainant. You would think the retiree association would’ve found someone more compelling to be their representative than someone who’s in the top 20th percentile of earners in the state.
I came across this phenomenon over the Fair Tax many times. Retired teachers with 6-figure pensions writing op-eds begging for us to vote yes for the Fair Tax all while paying no state income taxes themselves.
nixit
4 years ago
According to BGA pension database, retired teacher Patricia Hampton’s 2020 pension was $107,000. She’s been retired since 2003, hasn’t paid one dime in state income taxes on that pension in nearly 20 years, and her 3% compounded COLA has solidly outperformed inflation over that time. And I deduce by her final salary ($104K per the BGA website) and her current pension that she probably received large 20% pension spikes in her final few years teaching. In the pension game, she has clearly come out waaaaaay ahead. So I ask…how the hell is some increased health care cost “devastating”?! Retired teacher… Read more »
Since Ms Hampton was kind enough to offer up her personal situation, how about a detailed breakdown from her so that what she is saying is clear? Then a comparison to the average taxpaying family in Illinois, who is funding it all?
Sure, and let’s do same for lawyers, doctors and even skilled tradesmen, too. You already know that all three groups named earn more than the average employee, so what are you trying to prove that’s politically neutral at least? The average household income is not a fair basis of comparison, is it? Yet, you are implicitly suggesting teachers should be paid as average employees are throughout the state who predominantly are not required to have a college education to even be hired to do their jobs. I don’t know this person, but I’d advise her to ignore your request since… Read more »
The group you mentioned are higher earners in general but all those professions are on an as needed basis. We pay for their services when we need legal help or repairs but nowhere is it stated we have to pay for those services via property or other taxes. Their fees are not based on the value of our property as are public sectors like schools/police/fire which are mostly paid through property taxes. We have no choice to pay them mostly via property taxes but we do have a choice on those professions you mentioned and plus we have some negotiating… Read more »
One other point is we’re paying the crappy teacher just as much as the good teacher. They are all paid as average employees, there is no differentiation between the good and the bad as far as pay.
NB-Chicago
4 years ago
Supposedly fed covid relief $bucks$ can’t go to paying off pension debt? but could the relief $bucks$ go to public sector union health benefit debt?
A largely unasked question is becoming glaring: Is Illinois doing all it should to use artificial intelligence to make government cost less and work better? So far, the evidence says no.
It is interesting to speculate where this entitled organism, presumably below Medicare age 65, intends to procure her actual medical provision (because, ‘as you know’, insurance does not equate to medical provision). Illinois medical professionals are not necessarily all so idiotic, or in debt, or newly imported immigrants from countries which pay docs&nurses lower gross remuneration per hour worked, as to be instantly and unqualifiedly on call in servitude to organisms such as this one. Of course, she may live in Florida where Illinois taxpayers are on the hook to provide platinum quality ‘insurance’ reimbursement rates for services to 55-year-old… Read more »
She retired in 2003 with over 30 years of service, so it’s safe to say she’s over 65.
if Medicare age, no need for 100% taxpayer funded health insurance
Imagine if at age 55, all Illinois nurses and doctors demanded that Illinois taxpayers paid 100% of their platinum-rated health insurance (yes, including EYECARE, DENTAL, AND EVEN A LIFE INSURANCE KICKER) until Medicare kicked in?
It would be interesting to know the dollar amount that causes this to be “financially, physically, mentally, in so many ways just devastating”. I’m guessing it’s way less than her 3% COLA increase. It would also be interesting to know her co-pay, co-insurance and drug costs. Probably gets dental and vision included too. My sister in law was complaining how her employer raised her monthly cost for health insurance from $105 to $125. Meanwhile I pay $700+ per month plus co-pays and co-insurance. Some people are out of touch with reality and stuck on their entitlement mindset. It’s time legislators… Read more »
One thing that is not discussed, even here on WP, is how taxpayers in the private sector who fund all this have to defer spending to put money into risky investments in the hope that one day they can retire, and with no COLA. Teachers I have known typically spend every dime they make since they don’t care about investments, healthcare costs, etc. Most live beyond their means because of it. Fairly foolish, indulgent, and oblivious to the real world.
But, that’s the beauty of living in America—being able to live according to your own priorities and standards. We all have the right to “do our thing” to a large extent and heap the consequences of doing so whether good or bad. Personally I favor the mindset of those who live and act modestly and doing so below their financial means. That doesn’t mean I need to fault you if you choose a different path. Just don’t be cruel or dishonest with your fellow man: that’s all I ask.
I basically walk the same “path,” and I confess a major benefit from my wife’s retired teacher health benefit, which I get to keep if she divorces me and runs off with the Marlboro Man. I also understand, however, that those health benefits are way underfunded and (under the law of the state where she taught) those benefits could be terminated. Further, I understand that those benefits are fundamentally unsustainable. There are limited ways of hedging those risks. It may be a greater or lesser risk than faced by Phoenix residents who can’t guarantee their future water or a continuing… Read more »
Having an altruistic point of view here is a little admirable on the surface but really seems more “cute” in the real world in which we have to live. The truth of life everywhere is that if you want more than a subsistence-level of living you have to aggressively seek it, or you will be lost in the sea that is poverty. I, too, wish that every service and consumer item I need were “freely given.” Sadly, that’s a fantasy. With only rare exceptions the bills I am forced to pay seem excessive to me and sometimes brazenly so for… Read more »
What a pathetic, long non-answer. Your pension is mathematically doomed, and so is your insurance. Enjoy!
You spend $200 for snow removal service? Who exactly are you? Some pension grifter? I own a snowblower like NORMAL MIDDLE CLASS residents and do it myself.
I did all that until this winter, but age is starting to show its effects. To continue might well be penny wise and pound foolish.
Age does make a difference. I’ll take back my comment, but $200 is still alot of money any way you look at it.
That was my point. I would have taken it more in stride if he’d simply spent another 60-90 seconds cleaning that stoop. It can’t have escaped his notice, yet he purposely chose not to do it. This was the 2nd such event in the last week in that we’ve had two snowfalls of some significant size. I may do it myself again next near to keep from feeling ripped off. Its not a high-tech job nor one requiring any particular training as I see it. Much like you, I suspect, I’d almost rather die doing it that feel ripped off.… Read more »
This sounds to me like “he who takes … gets.” Either that or a lack of inclination to discuss questions that sound like public policy or philosophy. I had hoped to discuss the “what if” question and see if you have any limits at all. That is: is your position screw the taxpayer and continue to enforce the law (as read by Illinois elected judges) and continue to throw up all the roadblocks that can be erected to preserve the status quo — even if that status quo will bankrupt cities and school districts? That position is not far removed… Read more »
I think you want a punching bag. I’m not volunteering.
Retreat noted.
In earlier times of modest salaries for teachers and professors, those jobs had status and honor based on the [presumed] selfless dedication of those people to their field and to their students. Similar deference was paid to those who ran charities or volunteers. In our age of higher and often above average salaries for those in such jobs, there is a greater ambiguity about the educators’ and the philanthropists’ motivations. This “evolved” respect, held by myself and others, may or may not be warranted. The behavior of unionized teachers in Chicago reinforces my attitude, however. There’s no proof, of course,… Read more »
Now, your trying to douse me with honey to let the pummeling ensue later. Not gonna happen. People here have cemented attitudes and generally would rather vent than try to solve any given problem with someone having another point of view. Its a drinking-buddy club.
Tar withheld as a peace offering. Sticky knuckles and all.
Please, do whatever legal foolishness you prefer. Just don’t ask me to pick up the tab for your foolishness and bad choices. It’s America, pay your own freight.
That’s my sentiment as well presuming the rules in place are fully honored as is the usual expectation in a civilized society.
That’s the difference between defined contribution vs defined benefit. One is bottomless, the other is not. I don’t begrudge pensioners. I can get by just fine on my 401k and IRA funds, but it will require more funding and that the state to treat my retirement in an equitable manner of a state pensioner. I need to save more, so the state should offer me bigger tax deductions on my retirement contributions. The state shouldn’t tax my social security contributions either. I need to work longer, so the state should tax anyone below the minimum SS age of 62 on… Read more »
Actually there is one more difference and a very big one – The public employee defined benefit is guaranteed to the point of private property confiscation (so said the Illinois Supremes in so many words) I agree with your other points, but most people in the private sector would be happy to be simply left alone by the entitlement mentality of public employee unions. So let’s cap it, and call it a day.
It always amazes me when these hardship pensioner stories come out and the reporters don’t bother to fact check the complainant. You would think the retiree association would’ve found someone more compelling to be their representative than someone who’s in the top 20th percentile of earners in the state.
I came across this phenomenon over the Fair Tax many times. Retired teachers with 6-figure pensions writing op-eds begging for us to vote yes for the Fair Tax all while paying no state income taxes themselves.
According to BGA pension database, retired teacher Patricia Hampton’s 2020 pension was $107,000. She’s been retired since 2003, hasn’t paid one dime in state income taxes on that pension in nearly 20 years, and her 3% compounded COLA has solidly outperformed inflation over that time. And I deduce by her final salary ($104K per the BGA website) and her current pension that she probably received large 20% pension spikes in her final few years teaching. In the pension game, she has clearly come out waaaaaay ahead. So I ask…how the hell is some increased health care cost “devastating”?! Retired teacher… Read more »
Because she’s living well beyond he means.
She received a raise 25 days ago. Her new 2021 pension should be around 110k.
Wouldn’t it be $113K now? I’m not exactly sure how the fiscal years work in relation to the pensions reported by BGA.
Correct. My mistake. My mind still thinks its 2021. Pensions are increased January 1st each year.
What a hack Hampton is. Pure greed.
Totally believable in Biden’s America.
In Biden’s America she’s what’s called “working people” a/k/a union leech.
Since Ms Hampton was kind enough to offer up her personal situation, how about a detailed breakdown from her so that what she is saying is clear? Then a comparison to the average taxpaying family in Illinois, who is funding it all?
Sure, and let’s do same for lawyers, doctors and even skilled tradesmen, too. You already know that all three groups named earn more than the average employee, so what are you trying to prove that’s politically neutral at least? The average household income is not a fair basis of comparison, is it? Yet, you are implicitly suggesting teachers should be paid as average employees are throughout the state who predominantly are not required to have a college education to even be hired to do their jobs. I don’t know this person, but I’d advise her to ignore your request since… Read more »
The group you mentioned are higher earners in general but all those professions are on an as needed basis. We pay for their services when we need legal help or repairs but nowhere is it stated we have to pay for those services via property or other taxes. Their fees are not based on the value of our property as are public sectors like schools/police/fire which are mostly paid through property taxes. We have no choice to pay them mostly via property taxes but we do have a choice on those professions you mentioned and plus we have some negotiating… Read more »
One other point is we’re paying the crappy teacher just as much as the good teacher. They are all paid as average employees, there is no differentiation between the good and the bad as far as pay.
Supposedly fed covid relief $bucks$ can’t go to paying off pension debt? but could the relief $bucks$ go to public sector union health benefit debt?