-- Connecting the dots between our economy, government and business --
Summary and audio linked here.
Chicago’s political leadership is floating a pension buyout program as evidence it is seriously addressing the city’s thirty-six-billion-dollar unfunded pension liability, but Mark Glennon, founder of the Illinois policy research organization Wirepoints, said that the proposal moves debt from one column to another rather than reducing it, and that the broader fiscal picture facing the city continues to deteriorate across every measurable dimension. Audio here.
Expect no retraction or apology. This what they do.
The state’s existing buyout program for its own pensions is the precedent for Chicago, which should be a warning: Look out for similar exaggerated claims and shoddy analysis.
Full interview and summary linked here.
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‘Stop targeting the middle class’: Illinois county homeowners slapped with property tax bills over $10,000 as local Walmart, Home Depot see amount they owe slashed
Oh you poor, poor babies. I was paying $12K/year in property taxes EIGHT YEARS AGO out in the Collar Counties before I sold at a loss to leave Silly-nois.
The chickens you voted for have hatched and come home to roost so PAY UP SUCKERS!
You will die of old age before you ever see a lowering of property taxes. Pension costs are growing like a cancer and cannot be stopped now. So, suck it up and pay.
The road to serfdom is getting wider every day.
That truly sums up the consequences of rule by today’s radical left.
“Its fiscal policies grind him between the millstones of excessive taxation and inflation.” – Vladimir Lenin
I’m paying over $15,000 / year. I’m looking for a new home.
If you do not like taxes, then why the heck are you still in Illinois?
Lots of other states will give you a better economic opportunity.
These 10 U.S. states have America’s best economies (cnbc.com)
Family, friends, business that has high barriers to move to a new location, etc…
More tax sales coming for those who can’t make their property tax payments. The ghouls in IL that feed off of this disfunction, backed by paid off judges, can’t wait to put elderly people on the street. IL is a sick, sick place.
i will be gone from this awful state and crook county on the day after my retirement,,sadly thats still 7 long yrs away,,, prop tax is 200 more then my actual mortgage payment… death by 1000 cuts in this corrupt state..
A big factor is the number of governmental units on the tax bills. Townships, abatement districts, school districts with more administrators than students. Each of these comes with duplication, pension obligations and high administrative costs. Many of the officials are double dipping with other agencies, such as township officials also working for the state or county. Cut, consolidate, or eliminate some of these agencies and watch your tax bill shrink.
JB will never eliminate agency’s……just add more……that’s what these idiots do………that’s why you vote RED
Until voters are willing to accept higher income taxes (or other tax increases), property taxes will remain high. Sure they could also cut spending but the voters don’t seem to reward candidates that champion cuts.
Sad, but true about politicians not getting elected who are for spending cuts. And it’ the same at the federal level. No matter what politicians say about cutting government spending, neither democrats nor republicans, do so.
I don’t see any evidence the state legislature created an income tax or a property tax for individuals. Show me the law.
Save it for the courts Frank. In the meantime, pay your income taxes and property taxes or risk the consequences.
Make sure to tell the courts that the Illinois Income Tax act and Article IX section 9 (framework for property taxes) of the Illinois constitution don’t apply. You and the Sovereign Citizen Movement should really go grab a beer and share your ideas. I’m sure the courts will eventually see it your way.
Here is section 5.c. from the Constitution of the State of Illinois. Perhaps you overlooked it. “On or before January 1, 1979, the General Assembly by law shall abolish all ad valorem personal property taxes and concurrently therewith and thereafter shall replace all revenue lost by units of local government and school districts as a result of the abolition of ad valorem personal property taxes subsequent to January 2, 1971. Such revenue shall be replaced by imposing statewide taxes, other than ad valorem taxes on real estate, solely on those classes relieved of the burden of paying ad valorem personal… Read more »
“On or before January 1, 1979, the General Assembly by law shall abolish all ad valorem PERSONAL PROPERTY taxes” Personal Property taxes are not the same as Real Property taxes. You don’t just get to ignore section 4 directly above section 5. Sure section 5 limited the state from making up the lost revenue by imposing statewide tax increase on real estate but it didn’t stop them from allowing local governments to collect real estate taxes. You are free to your opinion Frank but the arbiter of our state constitution is the ILSC. Somehow I don’t think they will see it your… Read more »
“You are free to your opinion Frank but the arbiter of our state constitution is the ILSC. Somehow I don’t think they will see it your way.” You are correct, it’s a big club and the alleged taxpayer is not in it. Steve Emerson reports having the local tax collector take his property off the tax roll, or face a personal law suit. If the tax collector can add your property to the tax roll without due process, then surely they can take the property off the tax roll without a court order.
The taxpayer IS “in it”. They are the ones that approved the Illinois Constitution that allows property taxes to be collected. Nothing you’ve pointed to shows otherwise.
Yes, the Illinois Constitution allows property taxes to be collected, and is fine as written. But there are several types or classifications of property taxes, this is what you fail to understand. “To believe that the system they are using is legitimate, here is what you would have to believe. The people that created this government, gave their public servants the power to kick them off their property, pull them out of their house, and sheriff-sale their property. Does that make any sense? No. That’s not the system that was set up, it’s just being abused that way.” – Alphonse… Read more »
You continue to want to quote people and not the law. The law defines Real Property and the constitution allows it. If it’s not Real Property then it’s Personal Property.
Again, show me the law and not quotes from people. The quote you provided is based on feelings and not facts. Quoting people that align with the sovereign citizen group is not the proof source you think it is. Try again. Try using the law.
“Again, show me the law and not quotes from people.” If you will stop talking about David Straight disciples. I was just trying to inject some common sense into the conversation.
Sovereign citizens think they can give up U.S. citizenship, kick back and do nothing more. They don’t understand our judicial system is designed to be adversarial, where you need to defend yourself and respond to legitimate legal challenges.
How about injecting the law into the conversation so that you can outline a “legitimate legal challenge”? You haven’t done so. For the record, I would support a constitutional amendment that banned or limited property taxes for anyones main residence. If we are injecting common sense, I would agree that property taxes are so high that you never really own your own property. Instead you rent it along with a mortgage and even after its paid off you still need to rent from government. Owning a home also doesn’t translate in ones ability to pay the tax unlike income taxes.… Read more »
Section 4 refers to “real property” taxation, and you are assuming this applies to everyone and not just real property owned by the state. Look up “real property” in Black’s law dictionary, and it will say “see also Property”. The definition of Property is several pages long with classifications including real property, personal property, and private property. “Private property. As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed, and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and… Read more »
So your contention is that the constitution was only referring to state owned property that local governments could tax? lol The Illinois department of revenue defines Real vs Personal property. 35ILCS 200/1-130 You asked me to “show me the law”. I have done so. Your interpretation of the law doesn’t align to any court decisions. As I stated Frank, you are free to make all the arguments you want but that is not how our constitution or the law is interpreted. Just like the Sovereign Citizen group, you have absolutely zero leg to stand on in the court. Prove me… Read more »
“The Illinois department of revenue defines Real vs Personal property. 35ILCS 200/1-130”. The word “personal” does not appear in the code you reference.
Fair enough. It doesn’t appear but they do define Real Property and that is all that matters when it comes to the discussion of real estate taxes as it is allowed to be taxed. Since you like Black’s Law Dictionary, please tell us how it defines Personal Property. I’m guessing it will be along the lines of “belongings of an individual that is not Real Property”. Since the state defines Real Property, we also know that all other individual property that isn’t Real is Personal.
” … please tell us how it defines Personal Property.” Out of time for now, will come back later today with the definitions and try to clear things up. Thanks for your input.
It won’t matter Frank. The state defines Real Property and it can be taxed as you’ve admitted. You can try and define your land and home/building that sits on the land as Personal Property all you want but state law doesn’t agree with you.
My understanding is the courts are refusing to make a judgment on cases challenging taxation. They would rather pay you off to make you go away than set any kind of precedent. By the time you go to court, the prosecutor and/or judge will have violated several laws including forging a lien without due process, extortion, falsifying records, mail fraud. The laws are almost perfect as written, only the public’s understanding needs to be changed.
Yes the constitution clearly outlines how REAL ESTATE taxes can be collected by local government and your understanding needs to change. You somehow think you’ve found some loop hole that no other legitimate legal scholar has found. The courts haven’t taken it up because there isn’t a solid legal argument.
No loophole required, the laws are fine just as they are.
So you agree with the laws definition of Real vs Personal taxes and the local governments ability to collect property taxes as outlined in the constitution and the law. You asked me to show you the law and I have. You have not shown one part of the law that agrees with you. Show ME the law that aligns with your theory. When you tried to make your case you pointed to Personal Property taxes and ignored Real Property taxes. You then tried to provide a definition yet ignore the definition that is written into law by the state. You… Read more »
Here is the Black’s Law Dictionary definition of property. They start off with a general definition before listing what they call classifications. “Property: That which is peculiar or proper to any person; that which belongs exclusively to one. The term is said to extend to every species of valuable right and interest. More specifically, ownership; the unrestricted and exclusive right to a thing; the right to dispose of a thing in every legal way, to possess it, to use it, and to exclude every one else from interfering with it.” “The exclusive right of possessing, enjoying, and disposing of a… Read more »
You can make all the best arguments in the world – and you’re probably right – but to win, you must first convince a leftist activist judge, which is impossible in this state.
Nope, Emerson recommends going to the tax collector first, asking show me the law. If the tax collector has the authority to tax your property without due process, they have the authority to reverse the decision. Most will have no idea what you are talking about. He also recommends going to Federal court, if necessary, instead of state court using 42 U.S. Code § 1983
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983
In the case of gun bans, we have seen how the Federal courts like to waffle and produce a wide range of interpretations of the law. Expect the same in this case.
Here is Blacks Law if you want the full definition of property. This is very long winded at over 1600 pages.
https://epdf.pub/blacks-law-dictionary-6th-edition.html
Like I said. It doesn’t matter. The state has the constitutional right to collect taxes on Real Property. It took you all day to google a definition that you don’t even understand. Somehow I don’t think you will prevail in the courts.
The definition of Property Tax, from Black’s Law Dictionary, “Property Tax: An ad valorem tax, usually levied by a city or county government, on the value of real or personal property that the taxpayer owns on a specified date. The tax is generally expressed as a uniform rate per thousand of valuation.” Statutory law has no authority over private property, lawfully. “Private property. As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of… Read more »
snot
For pointing out the law to someone that is floating sovereign citizen garbage? I would imagine that someone with your intellect would come to that conclusion. Typical low information/IQ voter.
BIG SNOT
Do you have anything of substance to offer? Are you able to make a cogent statement or are you limited to only name call someone because their opinion is different than yours? I’m just kidding. We all know the answer. Low information/IQ people like yourself are lacking abilities to have a real conversation.
I can live with being a “snot” or even a “BIG SNOT”. How do you live with being unable to articulate an intelligent thought? I’m guessing life has been very tough for you.
NOPE……TRUMP 2024
What does that have to do with the discussion? I actually think Trump will win but I don’t understand what that has to do with your intellectually stunted mind. You may be suffering from the same dementia as Biden. Trump winning in 2024 won’t change Illinois’ ability to tax property.
NOTHING………LOL……….TRUMP 2024….JOKES ON YOU……LOVE READING AS YOU GO ON AND ON AND ON…………BRAINSTORMING!!
Here’s something to ponder. When a home hopefully increases in value the local assessor bases your valuation from a few parameters one of which is sales comparables and what whatever the taxing bodies levy will be. Here’s the problem. If your property increases in value but you have not sold your home you are paying taxes based on an unrealized appreciation year after year. Until you sell you do not know what someone will pay for it. Take stocks for instance. Any appreciation is not taxed whether short term or long term value but our homes are always taxed based… Read more »
“If your property increases in value but you have not sold your home you are paying taxes based on an unrealized appreciation year after year.” Even if it doesn’t appreciate in value, you are being taxed on a value that doesn’t represent ones ability to pay. I’ve told you before Freddy, I don’t think property taxes are fair because they don’t represent ones ability to actually pay the tax. I’m all for property tax relief or even better, eliminating property taxes all together. We just need to come up with an alternative way to raise the taxes that would be… Read more »
Speaking of the constitution, did anyone see that one year ago, the Republican Supreme Court of Wisconsin found ballot dropboxes to be unconstitutional in a 4-3 vote; but several weeks ago, the Democrat Supreme Court of Wisconsin reversed itself, and said that ballot dropboxes were actually constitutional under the Wisconsin constitution? The newest judge on the bench said at oral argument, “What if we got it wrong? What if drop boxes are actually constitutional but the previous court got it wrong?” Amazing how that happens, how a politically charged issue can be found unconstitutional one day and 12 months later… Read more »
I suppose that’s possible but considering a 4-3 decision that was split along idealogical lines was reversed 4-3 vs the ILSC decision that was 7 to zero with both Republicans and Democrats unanimously agreeing, it certainly doesn’t look likely. You would also then need to get past SCOTUS. Seems like a long shot but dream away.
We can agree to disagree about the long shot. ILSC judges are politicians subject to reelection just like politicians. They’ll eventually put their finger up in the air and determine which way the wind is blowing, and if there’s anti-pension anger out there, as story after story of playgrounds not being maintained, potholes being unrepaired, and million dollar pensionaires flood the airwaves….they’ll make the politically convenient decision.
“The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but the individuals’ rights to live and own property are natural rights for the enjoyment of which an excise cannot be imposed.” Redfield v. Fisher. 292 P. 819.
Nothing new here folks. You can pay 10K a year in Bowmanville on a rehab
Sounds like Chicago has almost caught up with the suburbs relative to outrageous PT rates. Congrats, Chicago!
And let’s not forget that governor WIDE-LOAD ripped the toilets out from one of his spare mansions to avoid paying taxes. The ones that voted for him are the same ones that are complaining the most.
When Jay Robert comes up for re election place a old toliet in your drive way and stuff his ballot into it.
Better yet throw your old toilets on his front lawn
There is a lot of incorrect information being spread out there. The biggest reason for tax bills being increased for residential properties is because the proportion of each taxing bodies levy has shifted from the commercial properties to the residential properties. During the triennial reassessment, which is in South Cook County this year, the aggregate assessed values of the residential properties increased more than the commercial properties. So, for example purposes only, if before the reassessment the residential properties values were 55% of the total valuations and the commercial were 45% of the pie, and now the residential is 65%… Read more »
Don’t the TIF districts have something to do with the tax burden for schools, police fire et al being shifted to the residential properties? Those so precious “oohs and ahhs” streetscapes seem to be paid for with taxes devoted to the TIF rather than directed public services as they would have without the TIF in my downstate utopia.
Not really. TIFs affect all other non TIF properties, both commercial and residential.
I have one property in a TIF and it seems to me that I am paying taxes into the TIF rather than the school district and public services. Being this property is not paying its way that means other taxpayers have to make up the differences as I see it making residential tax burdens higher. Am I wrong?
Yes and no. The assessed valuation before the TIF is frozen. If the property increases in value the taxes attributable to that increase go into the TIF. Yes, the other taxpayers, residential and commercial still have to pay their proportionate share to all the other taxing bodies because they are allowed to levy the lower of CPI or 5% over the previous year’s aggregate levy.
True but why is the problem mostly in blue states ………check RED state listings and the taxes are always less for a lot more house or condo etc.
Appears dems abuse their tax payers……often
The article references Madison, Illinois, which is hundreds of miles distant from Cook County. But, yes, real estate taxes are high, and rising as commercial property values drop.
Another fine Illinois area where the schools have a 17% science and 2.7% math proficiency rate.
… the students of which are the future leaders of Illinois. I think I just identified one of the root causes of why Illinois will continue to suck.
I believe, in typical shoddy journalism, the article incorrectly identified the town as Madison, when it is Matteson, which is in Cook County.
WELL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS KEEP VOTING DEMOCRAT YOU F’ N MOPES
I was quite interested the other day reading about the property taxes in Harvey. So I thought I would look at their school report card. I am not an expert but it looked to me like less than 10% of the students were at grade level in math despite the highly taxed individuals to support their schools. One would think the people upset with taxes would focus their ire on the school district that charges so very much for so very poor results. Consider, wouldn’t someone return a bottle of laundry detergent to the store if it didn’t work? So… Read more »
I suspect much of the problem is that ordinary sensible folks really don’t want to serve on school boards. The job doesn’t pay, and everybody hates you. It seems that typically, school board members are consultants to or employees of other “education” organizations.
Single party rule in Cook County and Chicago for 100 years, and in IL legislature for decades. Periodic republican governors faced with house and senate democratic majorities. That’s the mix that got us the highest per capita public debt in the country. Thats the mix keeping us in bad and worsening shape. Chicago and Cook drunkenly driving the bus for the entire state. Residents of IL now live to fund public debt, not services from a government that has long served itself. Ethics laws? Pension reform? Budget cuts? Term limits? 😂
Rockford taxes have been extremely high for decades way above the rates in Chicago. Thanks to Ptell any abatement by protesting assessments and winning a reduction is passed on to everyone in the form of a higher tax rate. This includes any deductions like homeowners/seniors/etc.The taxing bodies get what was levied (not billed or collected) the year before so no matter what the value is they will collect what they received the year before and up to 5% more. There are 39 counties in Illinois with under ptell jurisdiction including Cook but not Chicago. Now Belvidere school district may invest… Read more »
Problem: Property taxes =spending of the taxed community. High property taxes = overspending the means of the community. Property tax RATES far higher than the norm (all over America, communities must provide schools, police, fire&rescue, government, etcetera, but they manage to do it all over America for around 1% of property’s fair market value). Property tax RATES in Chicago have been abnormally low (~2%) for a long long time because Chicago schools are subsidized by all Illinois taxpayers (in the form of State pension contributions). Property tax RATES in collar counties are around 3% (inching down from above 4%) of… Read more »
One thing everyone seems to be forgetting about is the collar counties, anyone talking about Dupage,Will , etc taxes are astronomical.
Thanks for bringing this up. The main reason I left for cheaper property taxes.
In DuPage for over 35 years, I can’t even remember when my taxes were ever under 10K, not in this century.
Right. Cook County has always been thought of as corrupt and greedy, at least when compared to the collar counties. That’s why it made sense for some to leave Cook County for the collar counties to reduce the corruption and greed part of the PTs. Now, of course, PTs are very high everywhere in the Chicago area. Does that mean the collar counties are near Cook County’s level of corruption and greed?
I do believe the level of corruption and greed is in the collar counties like my county Will but it’s at a lower level but does exist but it’s ignored or not published like cook county is. I would bet if some investigations were done omg what would be revealed especially at the township level.
Yup, I was at $12K/year for the 2016 tax year, the last year I paid property taxes in Ill-annoy.
Check and see where all the money is going. I think you will find pension contributions is a large part of it. This is only going higher and higher, so look out ahead for more increases. Pensions are cast in stone, services are not.