-- Connecting the dots between our economy, government and business --
Summary and audio linked here.
Chicago’s political leadership is floating a pension buyout program as evidence it is seriously addressing the city’s thirty-six-billion-dollar unfunded pension liability, but Mark Glennon, founder of the Illinois policy research organization Wirepoints, said that the proposal moves debt from one column to another rather than reducing it, and that the broader fiscal picture facing the city continues to deteriorate across every measurable dimension. Audio here.
Expect no retraction or apology. This what they do.
The state’s existing buyout program for its own pensions is the precedent for Chicago, which should be a warning: Look out for similar exaggerated claims and shoddy analysis.
Full interview and summary linked here.
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Many of these people are making more in retirement than when they were working. What kind of a system is that?
It’s one where compounding interest forever is advantageous to some and disadvantageous to others. You have been—or will be—in that equation personally, so plan ahead to be on the better side of it. Hint: the better side takes long-standing sacrifice rather than self-indulgence, so it’s the harder choice but the wiser one as well.
They earned their pensions and now they can enjoy the retirement that the state contractually promised them. The voters of Illinois didn’t want the GA to be able to take away an employees pension once they started their job. The employee is getting what they want and were promised and the state got what they wanted. Everyone is happy. Well, everyone is happy except for people that are jealous of lowly police, firefighters and teachers having a good pension. Who cares about those people anyway.
These pensions have a Present Value of over $4,000,000 or more and that is at an age less than 50 years old. Normal taxpayer works till 67 or later and has about $350,000 saved. Public sector jobs can make you RICH.
Just think. To paraphrase from an old movie you coulda been a contenda instead of a bum!
Pure thievery. The fact that these Public Sector Union grifters deny their criminality confirms their immoral guilt. There is a special corner of hell awaiting them
Let’s see now. Where, or where, did you get your legal and ministerial education to be so authoritative, Dumshitz U.?
The same came be asked of you, but you rather engae in ad hominem attacks.
The whole point is that the system is rigged in favor of the public sector unions. FDR, a died in the wool leftist/liberal even recognized the problem with public sector unions.
Public sector unions should be forced to negotiate in public so that everyone can see the process. Sunlight is truly the best disinfectant.
Literally no one wants to pay higher prices for anything ever, so knowing that why would public employees ever want the general public to enter the fray? It’s a decided disadvantage to the point of inviting potential harm or social disadvantage to their side’s negotiators from any right-wing extremists especially. Again, there is a decided disadvantage for any such negotiator’s family whose local address generally and contact data are easily accessible. Can public employees in general attend your negotiating sessions with your employer? That’s a big NO, isn’t it?
You really have no clue what you are talking about. Teachers who live in the district they teach in have advocated to pay a higher real estate tax bill so as long as the negotiated pay raise they receive in their CBA is going to pay them more. So, yes, contrary to your first statement, people do willingly pay higher prices. I know that wasn’t the exact point you were trying to make but I wanted to point out the flaw in your logic with that fact AND another flaw. In every district, there are homeowners who support the teachers’… Read more »
Okay, my flip remark about people everywhere not wanting to pay extra for something had a logical flaw or two. Ten flogs with a wet noodle for me! Happy now! Clearly some people are willing to pay a higher price at times and especially where they either participate as a recipient or for other personal reasons not part of such financial decisions in the more general sense. People make all sorts of unpredictable decisions financially and otherwise for their own reasons, of course. But, really you’re coming on a little strong here, trying to “flog” me rather than educate me.… Read more »
Seriously? You make comments to others about being educated at Dumschitz U and you are going to lecture me on decorum? Not trying to “flog” you but admittedly, yeah, I had a little fun with it. My point still stands though about public sector negotiations being held in a public forum…and I have been employed in both public and private, negotiated in the public sector and would have no problem negotiating contracts in an open forum.
Many commenters seem to love excoriating their presumed enemies here, and while I’m a little less inclined in that direction I still brandish my harpoon at times, I admit. I’m not proud of it, but there is so little mutual respect here when one swims against the tide it reminds me of the high school years common to many people—find a soft spot in “the other” guy and lance it good and hard periodically. Many loves that kind of primitive entertainment. That seems the pattern here much of the time—congratulate the clearly smart people who agree with you and excoriate… Read more »
Well, I think you are giving credence to my position about public sector negotiations being done in public. The reluctance of public sector employees not wanting it should give us the incentive to the concept. There salaries and contract language are all able to be FOIAed. They are not allowed to keep it from the public. Why poke the bear? Because the bear needs to be poked…on both sides of the negotiating table. Hell, school districts in some states ahve to get voter approval to pass a budget.
Looks like that comment stung James. Likely from the self awareness that in fact he and his other public sector union co-conspirators are in fact thieves. But that is a painful realizations so just lash out at those delivering the cold hard facts.
I doubt we could agree on much of anything of consequence, don’t you. You prefer making me a target way too much to absorb or even really consider anything I add here. Buzz off to another pile of dung and have a feast. Where everyone thinks alike no one has to think very much. Truly your mother raised a Paine!
Shush, don’t let that get around. Even your kids or grandkids might want to become public employees. How could you ever brag about them again? That alone would be SO embarrassing for you to admit to your friends, and they’d likely become Democrats, too! How could you suffer such contempt from your neighbors? What would they say behind your back? Clearly you’d have to move.
Someone in my family already did, collects over $160,000 per year. Goes to Costa Rica every year for the winter. Lives in a 5,500 sq ft home, just bought a brand-new monster SUV and life is good for them. She retired at age 55. They live the good life all on the taxpayers of Illinois.
So what? Seems there’s nothing more in your story except for a huge case of jealousy. Why should they care what you think about it? Maybe there is something in your life that annoys them. Again, so what? You get to live your life as you choose, then you have to take the consequences of your life’s choices, don’t you? Give them enough grace to do likewise without your nasty jealousy being part of their concern.
James – The point isn’t really his story itself and I think you see that…It is more an illustration of how completely out-of-control the entire public pension system is and it should be corrected. The answer isn’t “you could have been a teacher and take advantage of it too”. It is unsustainable this way and because of the public unions paying the politicians, it isn’t even fair for the tax payer. You aren’t going to agree with that, but many do. Unfortunately not enough to vote for people who will change it…so, the one party state goes merrily on.
But, that’s the way politics works, isn’t? The side that has more money to throw at its favored positions gets better representation. Is it different anywhere?
So you’re allied with the petro and tobacco industries and the Koch Brothers and Soros? Where did you study ethics?
Nope, but I’d like to think I have a reasonably good handle on how one gets desirable political decisions to happen. For the industries you’ve cited it can work there, too, and by no means do I applaud that situation. Just because I mention it working in ways I might like doesn’t mean I like those other cases you’ve chosen. You’re grasping for straws making that argument.
Unfortunately that’s true, I agree, that is certainly the way it is…to a point. But, Illinois (likely NY and CA) pension offerings, how it’s funded and who pays for it is just out of control and unsustainable. This, along with unchecked spending, will of course bankrupt the State. Law makers, unions, no penalties for cheating or corruption, no one watching the farm and simple greed are to blame. With the damage Madigan & Co. did over his 50 years of graft and criminality where he turned these pension payoffs into law, the entire pension system is out of control and… Read more »
Well, as a state employee I must have done something wrong, or maybe right, since there is absolutely NO WAY I can retire before 65, might even need to wait until 67 or 70. No one in our agency since I’ve been there (18 years) has retired before age 60, most wait until at least 65. We are not union so that might have something to do with it, we don’t make as much as the unionized executive branch employees do.
James, would you at least acknowledge that there’s a very unhealthy emphasis in Illinois on the excessive number of highly-paid, highly-benefited public union employees in Illinois (unhealthy for the remaining 99 percent of us)?
Someone in this string just wrote that the number of truly high paid retirees is roughly 2% of the state’s population. That may be true enough by his standards, but for all I know maybe someone drawing a $50k annual pension is a highly paid retiree to you. So, it’s a matter of personal perception, isn’t it? So many people here seem so insecure by making all these judgments about people they don’t even know. Didn’t your mother ever say something akin to “tend to your own knitting” when you complained about the choices other people make which didn’t agree… Read more »
You seem to easily ignore who pays for your “knitting” and provides every last inch of your yarn.That makes it our knitting.
Do you harass all the people from whom you buy goods and services. If not, why not? It’s “your money, isn’t it? You should DEMAND excellence and be free to bitch and moan everything isn’t to your total personal satisfaction! I suppose that’s the way it goes where you work, isn’t it? Customers come in and feel free to raise hell everything doesn’t meet with your personal approval. In short, “get real.”
No, I don’t do that. Why not?
Because if I am unhappy with the goods and services, I take my business to a competitor who provides a product more to my liking at a price I am willing to pay. And then I don’t have to deal with the business who is putting out an inferior product, nor do I have to keep paying him.
Thanks for asking. I thought everyone understood how a free market works, but I’m happy to clarify for those who have trouble with the concept.
I have no quarrel with the concept of giving vouchers for educational expenses. If you think otherwise you are mistaken. Like you I want value when I spend money and wish my taxes were spent likewise. The difference between us is that I don’t harass the worker bees or retirees who are not directly charged with any such decisions. If you think I belong to CTU or have a retirement from CPS you are wrong there, too. So, bee nice here and find some actual decision make who is more appropriate for your stings.
So take your own advice and take your business elsewhere and leave the state. Enjoy the free market and make a decision to find that better state that provides you better service. You don’t tolerate it from a business so why tolerate it from Illinois. Although, you could choose to stay in Illinois so you can remain the victim. That must offer you some value.
PPF-Tens of thousands of people have left and more still leaving. All because of the public sector destroying the quality of life for everyone else but themselves. You should be proud of stealing money from children not even born yet.
Amazingly enough, PPF, I don’t need to leave the state to find businesses that suit my preferences. There are plenty right here.
So are you saying that public unions own the state and will dictate all terms, but trying to present that threat as some kind of choice that I am making?
You are saying the quiet part out loud. It’s appalling.
I never said the public unions own the state. That’s been your term and something I’ve never once said. I’ve always stated that the voters own the state. Members of your church, schools and rest of the community. They are voting for people that are providing these services and must be happy with them because they refuse to vote for the opposition. I’ve told you before, it’s like going out to dinner with a group of friends that continue to choose the same restaurant where you continue to have a bad experience. Your choice is to continue to hang with… Read more »
The average age of a 6 figure pension is no where near 50 and a few years back I believe the average age of this group was 59. 100k pension for a 58 year old male with a 7% discount rate (the same discount rate the state uses for calculating liabilities of these pensions) would put that pension at $1.309 million. No where near $4 million. Offer these people $3 million buy out up front and you could save a million by your math. I’m sure pensioners would jump at your generosity. lol You clearly don’t know how to calculate… Read more »