Ted joined joined Dan Proft and Amy Jacobson to talk more about Wirepoints’ new indictment of Illinois’ education system.
Ted pointed out that Illinois’ whole education system is corrupted. Tens of thousands of administrators and educators are enriching themselves with some of the nation’s highest salaries and pensions. 97 percent of teachers are declared “excellent or proficient.” Hundreds of schools are called “commendable” by ISBE. And yet only only 38% of Illinois students can read at grade level. Something doesn’t add up.
Read more from Wirepoints:
- Poor achievement, zero accountability: An indictment of Illinois’ public education system – Wirepoints Video
- Suburban Chicago school district controversy: No plan to fix black academic failure
- Poor student achievement and near-zero accountability: An indictment of Illinois’ public education system – Wirepoints Special Report
- Why the Chicago Teachers Union Always Gets What It Wants
- How can 84% of Chicago Public Schools students graduate when only 26% of 11th graders are proficient in reading, math?
Audio and summary 
If this bill passes, say goodbye to local control over all Illinois parks and expect to see open drug and alcohol use, needles, no sanitation and fire hazards, but no ordinary park users.
In my neighborhood there is a high school, single district, with a district superintendent $180K. A 2 school elementary district with a DS, $unknown. A 4 school elementary district with a DS, mid $100 K. A single elementary school district with a DS/principal, $ unknown. A 3 school elementary district with a DS $middle 100K. All are feeder schools to the high school. 1 HS and 4 feeder elementary schools to a high school with about 2000 students. 5 districts with 5 district superintendents, along with the Assistant DS, plus staff. Lots of salaries, lots of pensions, lots of benefits… Read more »
Yes, that’s how almost any outsiders would see it too, but when votes are taken for consolidation many times they are turned down by those same local voters. People like their schools to be both local and locally controlled while their children are of school age at least. Later, like you, they may well see it another way, but those older voters are less likely to vote in school consolidation elections.
Suppose a hospital ward had similar anomalous outcomes (outlier small percentages of a patient cohort survived at national normal range). Medical staff would throw every resource(on their own time) toward identifying and altering relevant causal factors. This outlier Illinois school statistic is not new news; what single causal factors can be reported as having been studied, ruled out, or addressed? Tons of taxpayer money have already been granted to ameliorate addressable factors: Poor nutrition, lead paint/water, lack of electricity at home to study at night, need for laptops, free tutoring software and tutoring vouchers. One factor which doesn’t seem to… Read more »
The public schools have trouble in many places already in attracting highly qualified people as teacher applicants. So, in such places they generally take what they can get with maybe only a wink as to the level of qualifications simply to fill a position. Now, how do you think your proposal will play there? Shall a high school not offer particular courses until they are fully satisfied the right person has been hired? That might well cause a course not to be offered. Don’t forget that the state requires students to have certain courses for graduation. There are other sides… Read more »
Ted ignores the disparity in pay between the different districts. NE Cook, Chicago, a couple other suburbs pay very well. Yet, even with such extraordinary pay, they have trouble filling every position available in Chicago all year. Yes, they do have vacancies, classes filled by subs, because they cannot find a credentialed person to work with some of the students. As Thomas Jefferson once said, “People get the government they deserve”. We elect these clowns. We elect the legislature that allows the gross inefficiency of more school district than much bigger states. We elect the school boards that rubber stamp… Read more »
Where is “The Teacher’s Heart”? There is ” The Nurse’s Heart”, which drives a nurse to perform in the face of enormous physical risk at every single client encounter (think COVID-19 before it was well understood, as well as mrsa and herpes and ebola at some point) (think hair-pulls and facial scratches from dementia patients, blood transfer of infectious diseases like HIV and hepatitis) (think assault by disgruntled associates of patients who now feel empowered to respond to perceived insults with physical ashoulder. Nurse’s Heart compels the nurse to perform even while knowing Illinois values teachers twice as much, and… Read more »
If you were a plumber I suppose you’d have a plumber’s heart, too. Your sources of income is not the primary issue. Either you have a positive value system at your core or you don’t! Don’t begin to think your profession is the driver of your moment to moment decisions nearly so much as is your personal integrity. Some have it in spades, and most likely don’t. As an example, think of the reasons police officers acted or failed to do so in a timely manner at Uvalde. Some charge forth and many dither. Such things are the tellers for… Read more »
You got it. We should all learn from teachers like you.
Plumbers have to pay attention to client outcomes or lose business. ( burst pipes=no repeat customers)
Nurses need to pay attention to client outcomes or lose business. (Again, burst pipes=non repeat customers).
Illinois teachers need pay no attention to client outcomes, because Illinois teachers gain rewards protection and additional compensation even as client outcomes worsen.
Teachers like you teach the Plumbers and Nurses that personal integrity is for chumps.
Better to Be like you teachers: exploit others for personal gain and do not waste time worrying about client outcomes.
You have “anger issues.” You don’t know me personally, so you are thrashing about trying to see me in ways that please you rather than seeking the reality of me in a personal way. Its time to think about seeking some help. You can’t change the world around you; all you can hope to do is change the way you react to it. But, keep on thrashing about and see how much better that will make your life.
To James & Susan, I know from prior exchanges that James is a good guy, both thoughtful and articulate. Sarcasm often intrudes in our debates here and I count myself among the worst offenders. When I begin to lose perspective I reflect on Thich Nhat Hanh on the Art of Deep Listening and the 3 Buddhist Steps to Repairing a Relationship – The Marginalian When you make the effort to listen and hear the other side of the story, your understanding increases and your hurt diminishes. Half a century after the great humanistic philosopher and psychologist Erich Fromm detailed the six… Read more »
Your complimentary and appreciated remarks to me aside, I think your story here is “spot on” in psychological terms and well stated as well. The problem, though, is that you are promoting something way beyond the normal capabilities and proclivities of the public at large to be able to deliver in practical everyday exchanges. Trying to truly understand your fellow man isn’t the normal mindset of the average citizen in this country. What we tend to get instead is “its my way or the highway” kind of thinking and writing. We typically fall way too short on suggesting compromises and… Read more »
Adversarial discourse such as we hear in the media — or from lawyers in the courtroom and politicians on the stump and lobbyists in the legislature — is a contributor to this problem. Even if nobody tells an untruth, the selective truth omits much of what’s needed for understanding. I’m not sure there is a better way to proceed but lately it reaches worrisome volumes. Jordan Peterson Prays, “God forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” – Creative Minority Report
Your declaration that I have “anger issues” speaks of your own guilty conscience. You must live in fear of people you must believe are angry at you for the damage you have wrought. You are however giving us a Master Class in diverting from the topic of the article and subject of my comments: You and your ilk demand enhanced monetary and other valuable considerations in return for abysmal client outcomes. You are teaching others whose compensation is outcome-dependent to seek to emulate your attitude: do a lousy job with measurably horrible client outcomes and nobody cares, destroy communities with… Read more »
Oh, brother; here we go again. You are unhinged with reference to me at least. You have a defense structure in your personal that’s impervious to challenge. As I said, you need help, and that’s something those who have to deal with daily probably don’t have the courage to say. Your are creating your own little mental ward drama play from your life’s woes. I didn’t create that life for you and can’t help you further than the advice I’ve given you. You have to learn to deal with your life as it is, change your occupation and/or change your… Read more »
James – you really aren’t answering Susan. But I have read your posts in.sufficien.t volume to answer. You have long pointed to the very low quality of many of the students and the homes in which they come from. So unlike the plumber or nurse, you should be conveying that there is a significant factor beyond your control – the utter lack of life preparation of the students. And high pay? Well the outcomes are poor so you can’t argue pay based on performance, but you can argue in terms of hazard pay. Sure, not in a place like Glenbrook… Read more »
Susan wants to fry me almost literally by casting her wide net of assumptions that at heart nearly all teachers (and maybe most “public servants”) are essentially worthless, unmotivated creatures unworthy of her respect. I hold the view that no set of people has more than a minimum number of common traits and that most truly are individuals in the way they think, behave and with respect to their sense of ethics generally. Some are workaholics, some are slackers and some may be total slugs. That’s likely true for most people almost anywhere in life. I don’t think I can… Read more »
James – you have to address the rationale for high pay. A solid rationale should be explained, and it doesn’t matter what Susan personally thinks of you. Just by observing the test scores of Chicago Public Schools students, can’t you make the case that teaching is a very tough and often frustrating gig? Ok, again, conditions vary. But in so many school districts it is very difficult to teach the unprepared or troubled kids. In the few elite school districts – I use Glenbrook North as an example – pressures are different there and the teachers must by and large… Read more »
The logical answer to most of your remarks is that good pay is essential to attracting and keeping a well qualified work force. While many school systems have massive numbers of students not meeting state-assigned grade-level standards those who advocate lower pay for such teachers will save money but make matters overall ever worse in terms of having students competive in their skills with those of the better school districts. So, do we want cheaper ways of getting our teacher work force, or do we want to strive for better student perfmanace levels? Its not a perfect correlation here, but… Read more »
What about limiting teacher-access to young people with demonstrated facility for learning and acceptable behavior? Hire babysitters and physical custodians for the others and have liberal reentry for those late bloomers who get with the program. Schools are for learning as libraries are for reading and we should not undercut or destroy their reasons for existence by using them for less costly social services.
Now, you’re talking. Put the govt. money where its best used. Miscreants should play bassetball at baby-sitter group rates. Come to think of it, a great many teachers make less most likely.
It could be an apprenticeship program for prison guards or nursing home assistants. I think prison guard salaries may rival teachers’ due to government unions and there is a shortage of nurses aides but teaching would continue to attract those who like long vacations. Charles Dickens has much to teach us still.
Part of the problem is that a good many parents think their children are geniuses and will be a doctor, lawyer, etc. Yes, that’s good to want the to be successful, but the child himself has to decide if he’s willing to make the daily sacrifices to do such things. Wanting it is one thing, but the reality is you have to WANT IT! Most kids have no such self-discipine to make that a realistic outcome and act according to their childish desires of the moment rather than what their long-term future might require of them to get to those… Read more »
Successful parents, many first generation legal immigrants, have sized up the competitive situation for college admissions and are “grooming” their offspring for success in today’s world of international everything. Hard work and ulcers gain the brass rings.
Multigenerational Americans often lack the stamina and at lower ends of the bell curves I suspect many are discouraged. Politicians and media overstate how bad things are – and getting worse – so the malaise is pervasive. Perpetual funk in urban schools.
“then you just can’t succeed”
Such a sad but true statement. Always appreciate your time Ted.
Just whining and complaining by Ted and his cronies. This is just part of the latest Devos-like “defund public schools” GOP game. 1) Attack schools and teachers as “groomers” and racists for teaching about real life, real people, real history, etc.; make their life miserable. Ban Books. Drive good teachers and School Board members out of the profession. 2) Move public money to “private” for-profit companies (in which Ted, his friends & other money people have interests). 3) Allow all the white families to move their kids…preferably ones that will focus on the “correct” religion. “Enriching themselves”. Ted worked for… Read more »
I guess you would recognize whining and complaining. You seem to be a master at it. Seriously, you’ve got to be able to teach children basic reading. If you can’t do that you won’t have to ban books. They won’t be able to read them!
Great ad hominem attack. You fail to present any argument that validates the failure of the Illinois education system (funded by taxes at the local level). And, a few thoughts relative to your drivel… (1) If you teach CRT, you are a racist. Judging one by the color of their skin pretty much hits the mark – regardless of what shade it may be. (2) Yeah, our municipal entities are know for being top notch. Exhibit #1 – our own government, which exists to protect us (as a citizenry from external threats) needs PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS to protect public employees from…… Read more »
Exhibit A for the whiny excuse brigade.
You represent the modern left beautifully.
The poster didn’t critique, he attacked using the latest talking points du jour. Like Matt Walsh says to his critics, he doesn’t care whatever slander or name he is called by his opponents, their slurs means nothing to him.
Show us your facts. Where is the hard data that proves your point? Are kids performing up to their grade level or not. That’s all he’s asking. If you know something, he doesn’t tell us.
LOL! We don’t even live in the same world as these people. There is no compromise with people who believe the good teachers and the groomers are one in the same!
lol
“… live on a teacher’s salary …”
If only I was so lucky. Instead I get to work two jobs, about 70 hours per week, trying to keep above water.
If I had become a teacher, I would have been able to retire a few years ago with a pension greater than what I am making now.
That isn’t true. They teach one side to a story as if it were fact. Pick and choose only topics that match their agenda. In school I was taught and we did, pick BOTH sides and had constructive arguments over topics. You don’t get that today.
You have proven yourself wrong by your arguments.
Illinois (#1-3 in overall tax burden; #1-3 in political corruption; #51, behind PR in fiscal condition; rampant “catch and release crime”; among the highest compensated teachers, with among the lowest student results; will not disclose unemployment fraud #s; will not allow non-public unions to get pension/medical public union reform on the ballot; last minute releases of budgets; etc)….why is Illinois almost always among the worst performers re political management?
Somebody, anyone here, reading this, please forward Fatty McFatso this tweet about Fatty’s other home state:
https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1534263931019177986
Back in the day teachers were underpaid and provided with few if any benefits. Education outcomes were good.
Now teachers are very well paid and the benefits are extraordinary. Education outcomes are poor … dangerously poor.
Why?
One reason is that through the last several decades the number of distractive influences have increased drastically. Electronic devices are the most obvious example, but every distraction that’s somewhat obsessive detracts from time and attention devoted to thoughts regarding participating meaningfully in one’s education at home and probably even during the school day to a lesser extent as well. To the extent that parents are somewhat laissez faire in that role and/or not really a positive influence with the educational process that makes it all the worse. If its not a priority at home its not a priority at all… Read more »
No way should bankruptcy be considered or allowed. This is pure and simple the litmus test for 49 other States. The policies and taxes in Illinois are the Progressives panacea. Let the State drive down the road and provide a full view to everyone else how well these policies succeed.
This is the real Jim Crow 2.0. Teaching black children to read is not illegal in Illinois, but these results are not much better than if it were.
I soooo agree. The soft racism of low (very low) expectations. Very well said —Jim Crow 2.0.
This is a situation where a bankruptcy that caps pension payouts would be a step toward equity. It may be a ham-fisted approach (that injures a few people unjustly), but not to the degree that taxpayers and students have been harmed. The current situation has been cynically implemented by unions and politicians working together to sell/buy the votes of teachers and administrators in exchange for the unwarranted enrichment of the few. To be sure, there has been some “reliance” in the legal sense where teachers have acquired Florida condo’s and expensive Volvos and have acquired a number of caviar tastes… Read more »