Wirepoints President Ted Dabrowski testified April 10, 2024 to members of the House Revenue and Finance Committee at the invitation of Rep. Joe Sosnowski. Ted told lawmakers that the state’s property tax burden has become dire for countless Illinoisans. Incremental reforms will never solve the problem and are a waste of time. The only way to bring property taxes down is to focus on eliminating their cost drivers: out-of-control labor and pension costs, misallocated education spending, bloated & duplicative local governments, and more.
Download a copy of Ted’s presentation
Read more from Wirepoints:
- Illinois property tax woes continue: ATTOM says Illinoisans pay nation’s highest rate
- Property tax bills come due: Cook County residents will repeat last year’s sticker shock
- Illinois tax rates out-of-sync with those in neighboring states, most of the nation
- Poor student achievement and near-zero accountability: An indictment of Illinois’ public education system – Wirepoints Special Report
- Thirty years of pain: Illinoisans suffer as property tax bills grow far faster than household incomes, home values – Wirepoints Special Report
Audio and summary 
If this bill passes, say goodbye to local control over all Illinois parks and expect to see open drug and alcohol use, needles, no sanitation and fire hazards, but no ordinary park users.
Save your breath, taxes and spending are going higher.
Wire Points has been trying to stop it but no luck what so ever.
Illinois is a Public Sector Union run state.
So, like it or run from it is the only choice.
Sadly nothing much of consequence will happen. The contracts the schools made are iron clad. Rockford school district contract has at least 4 years left so reworking it will never happen. Other school districts have 4 or 5 year contracts with built in cola’s based on inflation rates. Rockford has total pension pickup for teachers so that will not change. I would like to hear on how we could reduce the tax burden on taxpayers. One way is for the state to contribute at least double (60%) to what they are contributing but that can’t happen unless money is redistributed… Read more »
You’re correct Freddy. Those contracts won’t be cut and when they expire the next one will be even more expensive. The cost of goods and services aren’t going down so it shouldn’t come as a surprise that employee wages will continue to rise. The only way property taxes will decline is if the state starts providing more funding which means more taxes at the state level.
The solution to the problem is mass firings and cutting younger staff before they vest into their pensions. But there will be 40-50 kids in each class, many who speak limited English, and it will be a nightmare scenario for nearly everyone.
Doesn’t appear the voters want that. Maybe firing the lowest paid employees wouldn’t be the most fiscally responsible thing to do? Also, even if you fire them those employees could simply go to another district. Their service credit doesn’t start over and they would just pick right up where they left off.
Let’s try Equal pay for equal work , older teachers are over paid because of the way pensions are calculated. Eliminate the salary scale method of pay.
Maybe younger teachers are just underpaid. You can dream all you want about cutting teacher pay but it’s just not going to happen. At best you could hope to slow the growth of pay with future contracts.
PPF, it’s not a dream to cut teachers pay. It’s a nightmare, and it’s coming to district near you soon.
Someone better break the news to CPS and CTU. lol. You are consistently wrong on your predictions and this one is no different. Early part of COVID you told us all that Illinois wouldn’t be able to pay its bills in 12 to 18 months. Yet bills are still being paid and state revenue has jumped from 38 billion to over 50 billion. 2 years ago you told us all how Chicago residential real estate would collapse in 2 years. I asked for a percentage prediction and you claimed it would drop by at least 20 percent. Yet prices have… Read more »
What is the impact of the pension deficit/shortfall? How large is it? Paying for work already performed is financially painful.
It is financially painful. Are any politicians running for office arguing that we should actuarially fund our pensions? Are the voters demanding that from their leaders? Until that happens the pain will only get worse.
I believe the original intent for a pension is to provide for the employee when they retire. I don’t believe it was intended to be a replacement of total wages earned. A pension is supposed to be a part of the retirement package. The others for those who qualify social security/investments/401K or IRA/home paid off and savings should together make up at least 60-75% or a little more of the final salary to maintain the same lifestyle as they had when they were employed. I have mentioned this to James a while back. We all have paid into the pensions… Read more »
Taxpayers paid into pensions Freddy but they didn’t pay enough. We continue to do this every year at the state level. The state is spending about 10 billion a year when they should be spending about 15 billion. Had the state not fallen behind by shorting pensions, the state would only need about 4 billion per year to fund the pensions. It’s no different than those student loan borrowers that state they owed 100k when they graduated and have been making payments for 10 years but now they owe 120k. They whine about how it’s unfair but refuse to admit… Read more »
Social security payout to an individual is capped, public pensions should capped also; and the inflation adjustment should be the same for both.
What you think “should” be done isn’t of any concern to these contracts. The state offered tier 1 pensioners a pension without any cap. That’s how they shall remain. You can’t change the terms of this contract to steal from retirees now that they have honored their side of the deal. Now tier 2 pensions have a cap as you’ve stated that they should. They also have a lower annual increase. All is well.
The pension is going bankrupt if you like it or not, its the reality of the situation. They are giving billions to your replacements. Theres a reason they tried to force jab every American during the plandemic scam and then not require your replacements to be jabbed. Dont believe me, just ask the indians about blankets.
I have heard that line of thinking when it comes to SS but not pensions. The teacher pensions for example, are designed to return 75% of the average of their last 4 years. It has been like that for decades and clearly designed for them to live on that in their retirement. While that’s not 100 percent it certainly should cover most retiree needs
True but that is an exception. Most teachers but not all opted out of SS decades ago so their pensions have a higher starting point. But many people getting a pension is part of not all of the total retirement package. I know many people who get a small pension (mostly private sector) where the amount may only be 20-25% of their final wages and the rest comes from all the things I mentioned or at least they should. Also not all people who work in the public sector make it a career for 30 years but maybe a just… Read more »
I’ve read your basic argument a few times here and readily agree to your common sense argument as to how this all should work: you pay the taxes real estate taxes you are billed on time and in the full amount listed, and that should be the end of any such claims on you as to your real estate tax obligations for that year. But, we all know the word “should” has a slippery meaning in IL state budgeting. Apparently real estate taxes in IL are not necessarily spent only for the reasons most payers would readily understand, and the… Read more »
Well said. Giving it some more thought the payments we all make via property taxes pay for current employees are paid in arrears. So that said the money we and employees pay that money is most likely allocated to retired workers. So when PPF says we may have not paid enough I think we may have paid too much. The reasons are twofold. First the employees are making more money now as per contracts than the retirees made so the 9.58% or so allocated to pensions generate more money due to higher salaries and that money goes to retires now.… Read more »
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics to try and believe that you’ve paid too much. Let’s be clear, you have not paid too much because the funds aren’t fully funded. Regardless of however you want to spin it, the pensions don’t have enough money in their funds. The ability to pay future pension obligations rest solely on the taxpayers. If there is not enough money then the taxpayers are responsible for covering the short fall. While you have paid your property tax bill every year, that just makes you paid up for that year or in actuality, last year. If… Read more »
So, there you have it. As the Kingfish of “Amos ‘n’ Andy” fame in the 1950’s TV sitcom would say “you the stuckee”.
To say that “taxpayers are responsible” does not cover the full distance of who has the job of collecting the taxes and how will the collectors get the money. Some portion of the taxpayers will have assets that can be seized from banks and brokerage accounts via a cumbersome legal process. Many have real property that can (with difficulty) be foreclosed and sold if there are others willing to buy and able to pay. A subdivision of abandoned foreclosed homes occupied by squatters and rodents isn’t a liquid source of monthly cash and there are lawyers and realtors to pay… Read more »
Freddy – the Rockford schools have had financial problems for decades. I know – my high school team was so far ahead of the rest of the state save for Rockford East, our only competition. Unfortunately Rockford cancelled all sports that year because of alleged financial problems. A bunch of North Shore parents tried to take the kids in so they could compete for New Trier but IHSA rules prevented it. So how much pension debt is Rockford carrying? Given their penchant for mismanagement, my guess is that the debt is a significant millstone. Do you know?
Remember the People Who Care vs Board of Education lawsuit? That cost well over $200M if I’m not mistaken but what was not mentioned after that are the increases for the school district levy continued to rise. They went up after the lawsuit was settled and never came down except slightly right around 2007-08 when home prices increased a little then crashed but the levy kept increasing and never came down. Is this a stealth tax? I will gather my notes and contact 13 Investigates to see if they are interested in pursuing this hopefully in a few weeks. Also… Read more »
I say government is not a good manager of other people’s money, ever. I certainly would not trust them with my “pension”.
“Most teachers but not all opted out of SS” Simply untrue. There is no opting out for teachers. While they don’t pay into SS for their teaching position, they still pay SS taxes for employment before or after they were teachers as well as any summer work outside of teaching. They pay in but don’t get it back for the most part. There is no opting out. “If the amount we are billed is not enough that is the cities fault.” And who do you think pays for any mistakes by our government? That’s you and I Freddy. “I have… Read more »
Here is the info for teachers in specific states. Illinois one of them.
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/10/07/why-does-social-security-leave-out-teachers-in-the.aspx
ttps://www.aft.org/news/educators-fight-keep-their-social-security-benefits
This last one explains that 1.2M teachers do not get SS or at least full amounts.
https://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/social-security-windfall-elimination-provision-wep-and-government-pension-offset-gpo
My point Freddy is that they don’t opt out. They pay taxes into the system yet don’t benefit from them typically. You make it sound like they made a choice to not get SS.
You’re both half-right, it seems to me. PPF is right that current IL teachers don’t generally get SS in retirement unless they had some non-teaching employment not part of their teaching job. Even then their SS check often is some 40-50% reduced because of having a retirement check from a source not requiring SS deductions from each paycheck. But, Freddy is half-right, too. When SS was created or soon thereafter in the 1930s governmental workers throughout the U. S. were required to state whether they wanted to be covered by SS in retirement or have their own state retirement system.… Read more »
Freddy, PPF is deliberately twisting your argument. Per PPF, the pensions are underfunded; therefore, you as the taxpayer didn’t pay enough. Of course, this conclusion does not necessarily follow, as you point out. What happened is that the public employee unions, especially teachers, made sure that the money you paid toward their pensions was diverted to increase their current salaries and benefits. They essentially knowingly took massive advances on their retirement funds, so now their retirement funds are short. They did this because they knew they could always replenish the retirement fund by taxing you more. That was assured by… Read more »
That money wasn’t diverted by public employees. You act like teachers and other public employees need to choose between raising their salaries OR getting their pensions funded. They can and do demand both. I state we aren’t paying enough because its a fact. At the state level we are only funding pensions at around 10 billion a year when it needs to be around 15 billion. Just facts not twisting any argument. If elected leaders chose to use those funds elsewhere then all taxpayers are on the hook for that. If you remain then you will pay for that short… Read more »
My understanding is that the non-impairment guaranteed by the constitution was “insurance” because the government was already diverting the pension funds.
Pensions were definitely underfunded when the amendment was passed. Many people believed that it would force our leaders to fund the pensions. Clearly they were wrong.
PPF, you act as if teachers are entitled to have their cake and eat it too. We could all choose to increase our current income by using funds that should be set aside for retirement. But if ordinary folks did that, they would have no recourse to taxpayers to replenish the retirement funds.
For some reason you believe that public employees should have that right. Oh, of course! They made sure to put it in the constitution!
I work for a corporation that gives me raises as well as funds my retirement. They are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. Teachers can negotiate a raise and also expect to receive their contractually obligated pension. Sorry that is so difficult for you to understand.
It’s not difficult to understand what’s been done here.
It’s not but people continue to choose ignorance. The state hasn’t actuarially funded the pensions and caused this massive debt. Instead of supporting fully funding pensions, the ignorant complain that employees that receive pensions shouldn’t get salary increases. As if somehow teachers, police and firefighters caused politicians to not fund pensions because they also want to be paid a competitive wage. They choose ignorance instead of accepting that public employee unions sued the state to demand payment but they were told they have no such right to pre fund pensions. Not sure if they choose to be so misinformed because… Read more »
Your argument would make more sense if current teacher pay and their retirement checks came from the same immediate taxpayers payers. They don’t. Teacher pay comes from those living in the school district of employment while the teacher’s retirement comes from the state government. Yes, we can all agree that citizens in general pay both situations. But, implying that any given IL resident fully pays for each local teacher’s financial benefits in question is incorrect and maybe purposely so on your part simply to reinforce your feelings on the matter.
Of course. That’s why by far the largest components of my local property tax bill are labeled:
Pension fund- school district ***
Assuming I recall it correctly school districts do pay a very minor fraction of the state’s overall responsibility for funding the public school teachers retirement years. I can’t recall it precisely, but its something like 2-3% as I recall.
You are assuming that’s for teachers while it might be for non-teaching personnel. Just a thought.
Thanks for that clear and succinct presentation. However, I wonder whether having many units of government is really a problem. Are large units– Chicago, Chicago schools, Cook County, etc — really more efficient than small ones? If two school districts merge, they don’t need two superintendents but won’t they end up with a superintendent plus two assistant supers?
Anybody know of studies looking at actual experience?
[I wish Wirepoints notified me when someone replies to my comment; I’ll just have to check back.]
Go walk in your local township office and see what they do there. After that you’ll say we can get rid of them and the county can pick up the slack.
what do townships do? They allow other politicians to give jobs to their spouses and baby mommas to collection pensions!
This is also done by other levels of gov’t.
Where I live, the township was abolished some years ago. Functions taken over by the coterminous municipality. No savings observed but I haven’t attempted a study. Afaik, Illinois townships in general maintain some roads and provide some poor relief. Why do we think counties could do this better or cheaper?
Our school district shut down a school…now we have two principals at the same elementary school…they divided up the classes each is over…too few students at the building that was closed and not enough employees to staff the other elementary…now it’s all combined.
No big deal and instead of property tax hikes raise sales taxes instead. The overall tax bite stays the same but comes in a different way. Hocus pocus presto property tax hikes are stopped. See how easy that is? Works like a charm in my downstate liberal utopia. Now of course some might say the tax problem is still the same but most won’t because after all only other people pay sales taxes right? Illinois people are such geniuses when it comes to taxes you know.
Thank you Rep. Joe Sosnowski and Ted Dabrowski for presenting the issue of being over-taxed and pushing for change! 46 states function with less than 2,500 units of local government! Change is near.
Thanks Ted, I hope this hits home for them.
Very surprised Ted even had the invite to testify. He did a fine job presenting in the few minutes he was allowed. For 2 reasons however, this was a waste of time. First, the committee should have already been familiar with the data Ted presented, and second, they already ignore it.
Without Pritzker championing these common sense spending reforms, do not expect much from Springfield. Do expect the legacy media in IL to memory hole the serious need for reform, just like they have memory holed Pritzker’s two main campaign promises of property tax relief and fair maps.
I appreciate you. However, nothing is going to be done. I’m nervous to see my next tax bill (we do not escrow) here in Lake County. Our schools have insatiable appetites and with expansions to the library, community center, etc. using COVID funding (I don’t understand why the $ was permitted to be used in this way) these entities will need much more than they did in the past. My township levies no taxes – that will change once our longtime Mayor retires. I will never understand why our local and state government harm property owners in this way. People… Read more »
Thanks, Ted, for testifying in front of elected public union representatives in Springfield. They will never vote to cut off their own supply of oxygen – public unions – to reform public pensions. They will also not vote to reduce the budget or reallocate within it because, as we know, it is already an austerity budget with only crucial, irreplaceable programs funded. The only thing they can and will do is raise taxes and fees. No skill required.
Spot on Ted. This issue needs surgery — not a trim.
It is very nice that Ted was able to testify about the cost drivers of the ridiculously high property taxes paid by Illinois residents. It would be much nicer if those listening had the intestinal fortitude to do something about it. They don’t.
Great job, thank you Ted & Rep Sosnowski for giving a voice to everyday (non public sec hero) middle class folks trying to survive…because no pols in Springfield care other than to take us, are homes and are hard earned ‘fruits of are labor’ for granted
I left Illinois for this exact reason. My property tax bill took 2 months of my income to pay. I moved out of state and reduced my tax bill by 80%. Both homes were the same value of about 160,000.
Illinois tax bill. 4000.00
Alabama tax bill. 670.00
Life is better outside of Illinois.