By: Mark Glennon*

Please, wake up. A calamity far worse than coronavirus itself is at hand.

Frightening as the death toll from the virus is, a more terrifying consequence looms: a depression, and a major one.

If you think that’s exaggeration, it’s because expert opinion and news on the economy is drowned out by “frightening, click-bait headlines” that are “not useful” on meaningless numbers.

The assessments from sources of all political stripes are everywhere, though you won’t see them mentioned by politicians or most of the media the general public reads. Here are a few:

“We are experiencing an economic contraction that is faster and deeper than anything we have seen in the past century, or possibly several centuries,” Bank of England interest-rate setter Jan Vlieghe said. [Emphasis added.]

The coronavirus collapse has the ingredients to surpass the disaster of the 1930s…. Let’s hope this depression won’t last a decade, but an unprecedented slump followed by years of pain seems inevitable, said a Bloomberg commentary.

From economist Nouriel Roubini: “The best economic outcome that anyone can hope for is a recession deeper than that following the 2008 financial crisis. But given the flailing policy response so far, the chances of a far worse outcome are increasing by the day.”

Forget recession, this is a depression,” says the left wing Guardian.

The coronavirus pandemic will push the global economy into the deepest recession since the Great Depression, with the world’s poorest countries suffering the most, the head of the International Monetary Fund said Thursday.

“The expectation of market participants is that we’re in the Great Depression and that in a sense, the news can’t get much worse,” said BNY Mellon chief strategist Alicia Levine.

“At this point it would take a miracle to keep this recession from turning into the Great Depression II,” says Chris Rupkey, of Mitsubishi’s economic unit.

We are fighting the last war. Politicians and most of the press talk incessantly about “the curve” on virus infections, the point of which was to ensure that hospital capacity wasn’t exceeded. But we already won that, having excess capacity that is growing every day.

It’s time to bend different, more terrifying curves. Here’s one. It’s unemployment claims, from the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank:

Unemployment is likely already at Great Depression-era highs.

And take no solace from the stock market, which has held up quite well. It’s artificially pumped up by Federal Reserve Bank stimulants. The reality for most Americans is very different, which was captured beautifully on a screenshot from earlier this month showing the market soaring while unemployment surged:

To contain or head off the looming depression, our policy on the Wuhan Virus must change immediately. Two Stanford experts summarized the right approach as follows:

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

*Mark Glennon is founder of Wirepoints.

 

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Dadbodnomore
6 months ago

a definently an interesting thread. I’m 37 years old and I work for the state going on 13 years. The benefits and pay are truly amazing and yet I don’t create the rules or have anything to do with the state pension. Is it fair? No, but I’m not going to complain about anything. I have an amazing life that I worked hard to get. I don’t feel bad or good for anybody that is doing worse or better than me. It’s none of my buisness. I feel that if somebody wants to make more or get on the Illinois… Read more »

Daskoterzar
7 months ago

Its funny and sad at the same time. I know a teacher in the CPS that has a masters degree and PhD. She worked to get those degrees and likely earned them with her time and effort. However, the School District’s perverted pay contract allows staff to use those degrees to make more money regardless of whether the degree is useful in their current job role or not. If you have an advanced degree, the School District blindly pays more, without any measure of value for the district. So, this person, with her PhD teaches drivers Ed in CPS. Her… Read more »

UnclePugsly
7 months ago

Show me someone collecting on an Illinois pension, and I’ll show you someone who most likely didn’t earn what they get. A acquaintance just ‘retired’ (do they ever really work?) at 57 as a fire captain. The guy honestly isn’t qualified to do more than landscape work. But he hit the lottery on his pension, or so he thinks. Then there are the ‘teachers’ who will readily admit that they were glorified babysitters for most of there time – again, never really worked.

James
7 months ago
Reply to  UnclePugsly

What is “work” to you?

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  James

A tad bit more than just showing up and punching in on the clock.

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Well, then what is a “tad more”? Don’t bother responding. We both know this whole idea of “work” is nebulous in modern times. Do violinists, lawyers, writers, psychiatrists, etc., do “work”? Who is to be the ultimate authority as to what that word even means?

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  James

“Who is to be the ultimate authority as to what that word even means?”

The residents of this state who paid your salary and your pension. You seem to forget that. You are a public servant. Not a pension thief lining your pocket with my tax dollars. Money I would otherwise use to feed and cloth my school aged children. Your pension literally steals food from my childrens’ mouths. Despicable.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

So when was the last time you stood out in sub zero weather fighting a 3-11 fire freezing your ass off for 5 or 6 hrs? When was the last time you treated a gunshot victim bleeding out an applied battlefield technology to save someone’s life? When did you walk down a dark alley on a call of a man with a gun or shots fired? When did you try to handle a serious domestic fight at 3am in the 14th floor of a high rise at 3am? How many holidays, birthdays, weddings, kids sports events, concerts, plays did you… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

I commend you for your service as a first responder, but it’s all irrelevant to the size of your lavish pension. Your pension is too large, the state is insolvent, and your pension was obtained in a corrupt way with public sector unions backing candidates.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

You are a disgusting individual. That’s all I say. My wife says you’re an ass. So sorry for you being a failed human being.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

Hahaaa, I’m not the one stealing from the taxpayer, and by your own words, eating steak and lobster while, while the rest of the state goes unemployed.

Your day will come, your pension will be cut, and you too will eat cat food for dinner, like the rest of us.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Nope, never gonna happen because you are gonna pay me forever. Hahaha, my life is good, sad to be you.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

After paying for my pension maybe you and your obese kids and wife will lose some weight,

UnclePugsly
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

@DS Why do many fireman do Scab work?

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

Rodney King said the same thing. Not going to happen when folks like debstor hate you because they are jealous.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

Mark, please direct your comments to the hateful people who constantly attack people who happen to receive public pensions. They are hateful individuals who have attacked, name called, and verbally assaulted people for no other reason than we worked for a County, city, or state for 30 or 40 yrs and retired. Mr Debstor along with 2 or 3 others constantly accuses these folks as thieves, scum, pilferers etc. These are the ones who should be chided for their ignorant behavior, the only way to respond is with sarcastic postings and in their face postings. Evil and hateful is their… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

I’m not attacking you, I’m just pointing out how some people feel about pensioners that are looting the state. maybe you should feel a little shame for your pension. Do you feel any shame? Because your sarcastic postings make it seem like you don’t. It’s like you’re rubbing your greedy pension in our faces, while my income is zero these last two months, I still have to pay my real estate taxes so you can get your pension. Where is your shame? Maybe you should drive your late model car over to a food shelter and donate your time, or… Read more »

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

I know what I’m going to say here will be lost as having you change your attitude, but surely you might remember that the ongoing pubic employee pension costs are only roughly 20-25% due to the cost of those pension payments to retirees. The remaining 75-80% is due to multiple decades of making pension into the pension funds far below what would be actuarially appropriate, instead choosing lesser amounts as politically appropriate so money could be spent for cause and projects more appealing to the general public. If you didn’t make payments on your home for many years on end… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

OK, I’ll stop posting on this thread. They attacked me first, called me a conspiracy theorist and a liar. I feel as if I was just defending myself from the pensioners’ cabal.

The Truth Hurts
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

You are a child. “They attacked me first”. You have been on this board calling pensioners thieves and stating their pensions are unearned but yet you get offended if anyone call you out. It’s hard to have a legitimate discussion around pensions and budgets when you call teachers, firefighters, and police thieves because they require you to pay taxes to support them. I have visited this board many times for several years. I have never heard the founders of this site call public employees thieves. They have merely made the case that the state can’t afford them and adjustments are… Read more »

Fed up neighbor
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

Agree, I’m not adding to the fire but I have a daughter who is a fire fighter paramedic, and my son in law is a battalion chief. One thing and one thing only I would never want there jobs, it takes a special breed of people to do these jobs. Neither one is close to drawing there pensions, but they both understand the situation in Illinois and are open to the fact that things need to change so some form of pension will be available to them in the future. They all work hard day in and day out, just… Read more »

James
7 months ago

That’s the side this website needs to hear or read more often. The approach most take here seems to be thinking of all public employees as slothful, below-average IQ people who are clock-watchers when on duty and not at all devoted to the common man’s view of ther job responsibilities. Surely literally any work group has individuals like that, but I imagine there tends to be a bell-curve for all of that sort of thing no matter the employer whether private or public, I’d bet. Some are truly dedicated, some go through the motions painfully and some skate at every… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  James

I’m sure there are a few hard workers in there somewhere. But they all retired with $100,000+ a year pensions long ago.

debtsor
7 months ago

So a hard job deserves a lavish state guaranteed pension? Is that your argument? Even if that pension pays more than almost every other state in the union and bankrupts the state? That’s your argument? What about the superintendents and professors and village managers with even more lavish pensions? Are their jobs even harder than yours?

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Debsor, its sometimes a bit difficult where you want to direct your replies since you don’t seem to be discriminating where you reply. For example, in this case your replay appears as a posting to a comment I made a day ago where you’ll find the word “tad.” But, I think you really are replying to what appears immediately above here, the comment I made some ten minutes ago. So, my response goes back to that idea, assuming that’s where your mind was when you made this comment. I make no judgement at all about who a job worthy of… Read more »

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Your right!!

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Everybody should have a guarenteed pension…write the state and tell them

DixonSyder
7 months ago

According to debstor none of that counts. All public employees are thieves and not deserving of anything. He likes to call people names and refuses to accept a posting providing true and factual information. Try and explain that when public workers were hired at a young age most likely no one was thinking of a pension 30 or 40 yrs later and the pension plan sign up was part of the deal, sign up or dont get hired. Debstor and a couple of other regular posters must have terrible personal lives due to their hateful comments. Now just to rub… Read more »

7 months ago

Cynically, i feel like there is a smoke filled backroom of Democratic operatives orchestrating state governors on different policies to see what works and what doesn’t in the slow march to socialism. How much will people take? First, scare the shit out of them-then control them with the fear.

Poor Taxpayer
7 months ago

As long as the cops, teachers and firemen get full pay and benefits there is no recession.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Poor Taxpayer

Loving my luxurious home in Florida and driving around in my wife’s new Lamborghini is the best. Gotta love the pension baby.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

Lamborghini’s are a stretch on a $130,000 a year guaranteed pension. But I know retired teachers who drive 7 series BMWs. I’m a professional and I drive a Chevy because I have to save for my future retirement. I can’t count on $130,000 a year pensions like you scum.

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Surely you know deep down that its often a mistake look at a person’s blingy lifestyle as a good measure for how well off they are financially. Many people in suburbia are mortgaged to the hilt to live in mini-mansions, sometimes with old or minimal furniture. Some middle-class people buy or rent BMWs, etc, but do that with a great deal of edginess financially, and some buy “lightly used” cars as dealer prefer to say. Farmers downstate sometimes drive the high-buck Chevy and GMC pickups that start in the low 60k range and have Corvette engines not because it makes… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  James

James, you have a reading comprehension problem. My post only mentioned retired teachers I personally know of who are pilfering $130,000 a year off the honest taxpayer.

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

I’ll try to improve. My posting wasn’t meant for “your eyes only.” It was a response meant for all those who comment here expressing some variable degrees of envy and hatred for those who love bling in their life, not knowing in the least where it represents real wealth or more debt that wealth.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  James

No James, YOU are the one missing the point. “Those who comment here are [NOT] expressing some variable degrees of envy and hatred…” The undeserved pensions are paid by our tax dollars. And we pay A LOT in taxes, and by some measures, the highest in the union. And its STILL not even close to enough to pay for the future promised pension obligations. And those pensions are lavish, far more lavish than most retirees have in their savings account. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ―… Read more »

James
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

You either need to run for office or spend some time with a psychiatrist. First, you’re sounding like a broken record, saying the same thing over and over and over. I /we get it! Secondly, your constant drumbeat on such things and Democratic politics generally is ruining your sense of having equilibrium with your life, let alone ever expressing any happiness about it. Yes, I fully expect you to rev up your ire as always since that’s your go-to way of life. If I say X you always express disdain for it and say Y. But, seriously, you have to… Read more »

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  James

Glad to see someone join the fight with the idiots constantly beating on retirees all of whom, as they claim, are getting 100+K pensions, living in Florida mansions, driving high vehicles and getting a huge pension after a few yrs at the job they had. Try and post a courteous and sensible comment and their broken record starts over. Get ready for the name calling, pig, piglet, hog, scum, thief are some of the common ones, and the constant repetition of how public sector retirees didnt earn or deserve their pensions based in laws that were put in place years… Read more »

Charlotte Aines
7 months ago
Reply to  James

I find it easier to just ignore the trolls on this website (James and Dixon). They are only out to seek attention and rarely have anything to add to the discourse. Best not to make your comments about them

debtsor
7 months ago

They’re not necessarily trolls, just retirees who are legitimately scared at the palpable anger against their thieving class. The chorus of “screw the pensioners” is getting louder and louder every day. And they’re FREAKED out about it. They’re just lashing out. IL just asked for a federal bailout and became the laughing stock of the country. McConnell told us to go bankrupt and said no pension bailout was coming. Jabba is screaming at the top of his lungs that we have a $7B deficit coming, likely a lot more. I’d be scared too if my only source of income, after… Read more »

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Not scared of a thing because I managed to put away $500K in retirement savings via the programs introduced 10 yrs after my hire. Havent pulled a dime yet. My $231,000 yearly retiree check pays for it all.

DixonSyder
7 months ago

You’re more ignorant than anything I have posted. Let me call you names and accuse you of being a liar, thief, scum, pilfered, pig and others names. See how you would react. by the way way pay me my compounded cola.

David Fagan
7 months ago

2020 to be known as “The lost year”.

Poor Taxpayer
7 months ago
Reply to  David Fagan

The next 5 to 6 years will be lock down to lock down. This is NOT GOING AWAY.
But the cops, teachers and firemen will still get full pay (for play) and full benefits and hugh pensions. So all is well unless you are an honest hard working taxpayer (Slave).

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Poor Taxpayer

Unemployment, by some metrics, was worse in 1937 than it was in 1933. This will be bad.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Poor Taxpayer

Heard public workers on pensions were getting bigger COLAS due to the pandemic so they can upgrade their luxurious homes in Florida

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

Given that I personally know public workers getting $130,000 a year pensions (with 3% COLAs), you can buy a really nice home with that kind of guarantee income.

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Not true husband is teacher and does not get close to the huge pensions your talking about….conspiracy theory at best

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

You’re a liar:

Google: Forbes 30,000 six figure illinois educators

My childrens’ school district is paying over 200 people these six figure pensions. I know them – they are my friends parents, my neighbors and people I’ve known in my life.

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

We are in ga not illinois so different payscale def not 6 figure pensions here….but you can be kinder by not calling people names like lier and have a civil discussion

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

You started it. You said “not true” and implied that I was lying because your teacher husband doesn’t receive a six figure salary. maybe you should have said instead, “WOW, those IL pensions are crazy if they really are six figures, can you provide a link? In GA, our teacher pensions are 1/3rd of that! No wonder your state is broke!”

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Sorry the only power you have is to attack strangers on the internet

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

ad hominem:

(Entry 1 of 2)
*******

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

I never implied your a lier i just stated mt opinion that was differentvthen yours….number 2. Telling people how they should respond or what they should have said is not appropriate as people are alowed to have their opinions ….but you cant handle it….think you need fresh air and go back to work it will be a gealthy alternative to attacking others

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

I defended myself. I’m not attacking anybody. You attacked me. You called me a liar and a conspiracy theorist. You said that my assertions were a “….conspiracy theory at best..” Are you a Democrat? How about you say you were wrong.

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Sorry you feel that way but its just not true….get over whatever you need to get over take your meds……now im attacking

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

Now you’re trolling me! Denying that you called me a conspiracy theorist, “at best”. Have a nice day.

Jan
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Hahaha

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Nowhere did I find conspiracy theorist. Off your meds mr ass clown?

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

Jan said:

Not true husband is teacher and does not get close to the huge pensions your talking about….conspiracy theory at best

-5 Reply 1 day ago

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

Jan, the only thing most of these posters offer is hatred of you and others in yours and my position. They are disgusting people who deserve to suffer the consequences of their hate.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Jan

You’re a liar:

Google: Forbes 30,000 six figure illinois educators

My childrens’ school district is paying over 200 people these six figure pensions. I know them – they are my friends parents, my neighbors and people I’ve known in my life.

I tried posting a link but it was moderated.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Another example of your calling people names and you still deny it.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

I like to call people like you pension thieves and pilferers. Your stick your hand in to everyone’s retirement. They all eat cat food, you get a lavish pension guaranteed. The only thing guaranteed is that the rest of us eat cat food.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

I called it already. The name calling and hatred towards people who you feel are a problem is evident even when you are trying to ride your high horse. Calling people liars when you dont know their circumstances that’s acceptable in your mind. I was called a liar when I said anybody who gets retirement income pays no tax on it in illinois. Was called a liar when I said people getting municipal pensions lose 60% of their earned SS benefits. And now thieves and pilferers. Congratulations, your hatred is an absolute reflection on your sad, pitiful life. Finally I… Read more »

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Lobster and steak for my wife and I at least 4x a week, mmmmmm good.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Hater and a reject as a human being. Your kids must be proud that you are such a failure.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

My solution, pay me more. Bigger cola, more, more, more. PAY ME!

TimeForJBtoGO
7 months ago

Are the legal residents of the state ready to recall the Governor? He, and most of his cronies, are unfit to govern or represent the people of our state.

Wolfnight
7 months ago

Private sector Oil & Gas Executive here. It’s far too late for any kind of tinkering to make any difference if this lock-down stays as proposed until 31st May 2020. What the politicians have not understood or do not care about is the long term and essentially irreparable damage the lock-down has done to the market economy. Remember the taxpayer creates the wealth to enable governments to be funded and function. I cannot believe the smugness and arrogance of some of the local government people I know in Palos Heights. They are sitting at home or working fewer hours getting… Read more »

UnclePugsly
7 months ago
Reply to  Wolfnight

Awesome comment!

Donna
6 months ago
Reply to  Wolfnight

Thank you for the most sensible comment on this entire feed. Not fired by emotion but fact. And God bless America.

James M.Snyder
7 months ago

Well said. Deal with reality. Low death rates mean we can do this. Actually I don’t see that we have a choice.

Paul
7 months ago

It seems to me having half the population off work while contagious, ill, near death, or dead wouldn’t be all that great for the economy either.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Paul

You’re right. But that’s not the wuhan virus. That’s ebola, SARS or MERS.

s and p 500
7 months ago

The best assessment of the situation I’ve seen is on you-tube “Mentour pilot,Aviation COLLAPSE: Is this the end of the Airline industry? Like he says, yes the airline industry will come back, because it has to, but it will not be the same.

UnclePugsly
7 months ago

Pritzker and the Democrats are literally playing with an economic ‘nuclear bomb’, and they seem too stupid to realize it.

Some issues President Trump has to deal with daily with this crisis:

Economic collapse of countries:
https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economic-issues-watch/imf-will-need-more-resources-fight-covid-19-pandemic

An armada of 20 Saudi tankers with 40 million barrels of oil headed to America to further collapse energy markets:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/trump-pressured-to-stop-deluge-of-saudi-oil-headed-to-us-in-tankers

We are approaching a tipping point. Time to cut the crap and get America moving again!

Joan
7 months ago

OMG those quotes on that list!! Why isn’t our media covering that in Illinois? Why aren’t our leaders talking about that? It’s like were are jailed on a different planet here unless you read Wirepoints.

debtsor
7 months ago

I think the scribes will record this era in history as a 2nd major debt bubble that was purposely popped during one month in March 2020. Underlying this coronavirus calamity is debt, debt and more debt that rapidly defaulted because of an external event, the red death, setting off a chain reaction of cascading defaults further and further into the economy. The issue is the inability of corporations and the households employed by them to save for a ‘rainy day’ event like this. The lack of preparation and savings for these type of events is inexcusable. Black swan events have… Read more »

Ben
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

If it gets as bad as you say then the huge hoards of people who didn’t stock up, some with guns, will come to your house, end you and your family, and take all you have stocked up, enjoy.

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Liberals don’t believe in gun rights, remember? I don’t expect any of them to have any, nor know how to use them.

I have what I need at my house, and I’m sure debtsor has what he needs.

Ben
7 months ago

Dumb comment. I know PLENTY of right wingers who do not have ANY extra stock of food to get them through weeks, not even speaking of months. The fact is, stocking up just makes you a huge target in the worst of worst of times. And, at some point you will be over-run and done.

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Ok Ben. Calm down.

Ben
7 months ago

The reality is: if the global economy collapses totally, then most of us will die within a month or two at most. That is the reality. Playing Rambo won’t last long in that situation.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Rambo was rejecting a corrupt society, and having a mental breakdown, as he ran into the forest to fight the corrupt locals.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

“I know PLENTY of right wingers who do not have ANY extra stock of food to get them through weeks, not even speaking of months. ” Living conservatively and planning for the future is apolitical. I’m not saying society is going to collapse, but instead, it’s going a lot like the 1930’s. Bad times, those that prepared in advance survived, those that lived on the edge suffered greatly, and never recovered. A hungry population sometimes gets violent, but it’s not going to be mad max liberals with guns. And I can protect myself. Heck, I’ll move to a more rural… Read more »

Ben
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Well, as far as a 1930’s situation, I am VERY well prepared. Thanks.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Dont need to stock up on food and essential supplies. I know the libtards in my neighborhood who have the Bernie signs, This is a gun free zone signs, Nuclear Free signs etc. When the crap hits the fan I will just take my AR14 (Bidens hated firearm) for a walk and go take all their cached goodies. No lines, no checkout, no problem.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

Bernie was/is a gun rights supporter you know. And despite the outward virtue signaling of those signs, there are likely guns in those households.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

To what extent does Bernie believe that gun regulation should be a federal issue?
Bernie has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on military-style assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.

Bernie believes assault weapons, as well as magazines holding more than ten bullets, should be banned nationwide. Wrong again, I don’t expect a retraction.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  DixonSyder

You’re right, pension thief, no retraction needed. And this is from your favorite website – Vox: “Bernie Sanders faced consistent criticism from the left on one issue in the 2016 Democratic primary: guns. Opponents Hillary Clinton and Martin O’Malley attacked Sanders’s past votes against a bill in 1993 that established national background checks and for a bill in 2003 and 2005 that protects gun companies from lawsuits if their products are used in crimes. Sanders, an independent from rural and gun-friendly Vermont, defended the virtues of moderation on this issue — arguing, “We need a sensible debate about gun control… Read more »

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

PAY ME MORE. Let your hatred eat your heart out.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Doubt it. Idiots of your ilk are scared of evil black rifles and the truth

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

This certainly is a risk. And I’ll do my best to avoid it. All over Europe the amateur treasure hunters use metal detectors to look for hoards, which are buried caches of precious metals and coins. But if you think about it, behind every hoard is a sad, sad story of the human existence, as the person who took the time to bury that hoard, for whatever reason – war, invasion, famine, pestilence, or plague – never came back to retrieve it. England has especially rich hoards, as nearly 700 years of instability, from Roman’s abandonment of Britannia, through the… Read more »

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Well said, debtsor. The biggest battle we have now is preventing the “grasshoppers” from bailing themselves out of everything at our expense.

We cannot let them make us pay for their profligacy with our savings.

There must be a lesson served here, or we might as well just let it all go to hell.

UnclePugsly
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Disagree. Danger is hyperinflation, so your saving become useless. In fact, paper money should be spent as fast as possible. If you look at what the IMF recently said, inflation and hyperinflation is the main concern as smaller countries in Europe, Africa, and elsewhere could collapse – they do not have a fiat currency. After WW2, the survivors in Germany all bought gold since they knew ‘money’ could be rendered nearly useless by their Government. My Uncle in Munich had hidden throughout his house gold coins. Many a night as he had his wine he would get the gold coins… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  UnclePugsly

Hyperinflation is the collapse of the faith in a currency. When people no longer accept $, no one wants them, they become more and more useless, so they print more and more, and so on. That’s not going to happen to us. Sure, in Africa, and in eastern europe, for sure. As for inflation, that has already occurred – look at the cost of everything that has increased in the previous 50 years. The inflation happened, on a basic level, because there was too much money chasing too few goods, and the source of that money was debt, debt, debt.… Read more »

Freddy
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Good Point but what concerns me is what if there is some sort of cyber attack at our banking system or the internet. No ATM’s/no credit cards/checks can’t be cashed/etc and we are now basically a cashless society. And even worse what about something out of the blue that totally blindsides us. A massive solar storm like the one in the 1859 called the Carrington Event which fried the telegraph system and power systems. Imagine most our our power fried like KFC without the 11 herbs and spices for 6 months to a year or more. As bad as everything… Read more »

UnclePugsly
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

One of China’s goals is to remove the $ as a favored world reserve currency – the Wuhan virus pandemic is helping mightily in that regard. (Many countries are also supporting China thinking it will help them) Recall the EU was sold on the fact they thought that by banding together the Euro would challenge the $ as the worlds favored reserve currency – the Eurocrisis stopped that and now the Euro may collapse even. If China is successful in weakening or even removing the $ as the worlds favored reserve currency, game over for the printing press approach to… Read more »

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago

This extension of the “shelter-in-place order” through May 31 is an enormous mistake. It is good that there is a relaxation of some of the order’s specifics, but it’s not enough. We should be opening everything up but the most crowd-intensive things. People now understand social distancing, and almost everyone is wearing masks. Continue that, and rely on people’s common sense. If you don’t trust people, then don’t go out. The point is that the choice should be ours, not government bureaucrats. America has lost much of the sense of industriousness and individuality that gained us the title of world… Read more »

Y
7 months ago

A former state legislator recently told me that this is in fact unlawful/unconstitutional You do NOT have to stay home. You do NOT have to close your business. You are NOT restricted in your travels. You are NOT banned from religious assembly. These are NOT laws, as a law must be passed by your state legislature. And, of course, this has not happened in any of our 50 states. These following orders are UNLAWFUL “orders”: Stay at home, Close your business, Don’t go to church, Practice social distancing, Wear a mask, No interstate travel etc etc. These are NOT laws… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  Y

I think they have broad executive powers like this during pandemics and emergencies. Heck, one of our best presidents, Lincoln, suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. And the other problem is that they can shut you down now and you’ll spend years litigating the state to prove they were wrong. Like the old saying, you can’t fight city hall.

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

This is correct. Right now I don’t have the resources to fight the crazy alderman and his tyrannical instincts, not the mayor and her “campaign” and inspectors, nor the governor and his angry cohort of state thugs. And, because 99% of Chicago wouldn’t agree with my right to do this, they wouldn’t patronize my business anyway. I agree with the “written letter of the law,” but I also agree that these rights can be suspended for a finite period of time with a “specific” mitigational purpose. I have no problem with that. But what started out as temporary and a… Read more »

debtsor
7 months ago

“But what started out as temporary and a “limited time” sure is looking a lot more like “indefinite.” ” We’re still at a definite time period – it’ll be 75 days by the time this supposedly ends on 5/31. Longer than other places, but shorter than others (VA preemptively closed through mid-June). I just don’t like Jabba’s impossible to meet criteria – a flattened curve, ample PPE, effective treatment, widely available testing and contract tracing – is a bridge too far, so to speak. That’s a sound bite not a good policy decision. We may be one of the last… Read more »

Ben
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

He is just saying what sounds good right now. Some of the more unrealistic terms from him will end up getting dropped in a month when reality hits more. There may NEVER be a vaccine for this, as many experts have said.

debtsor
7 months ago
Reply to  debtsor

Follow up to my own post: Racist VA Gov KKK or Blackface Northam said today that it may take up to TWO YEARS for Virginia to fully reopen and that many businesses will need to stay shut during that time period. So, if this is an any indication of where IL is going, this is it. JB is just scared to say that because we have some fortunate 500 companies bleeding and hemorrhaging right now and they’re whispering in his ear to open it up before it all goes to hell. Gov. KKK or Blaceface Northham doesn’t care if VA… Read more »

Poor Taxpayer
7 months ago

You seem very intelligent, why are you staying in Illinois?
Illinois is home of the “Mentally Challenged”.

Illinois Entrepreneur
7 months ago
Reply to  Poor Taxpayer

I hear you loud and clear. But I am here for the same reasons that Mark has eluded to: Wife’s job, my business (which can’t be moved without losing all of the buildout assets) and family. Believe me, it wouldn’t take much to bolt, and retirement here is a nonstarter. But for now, we have to play the hand we have been dealt.

DantheMan
7 months ago

I understand some people have good reasons to stay. I hope their calculations include assuming a 5% per year decrease in their Illinois home value while also assuming a 5% increase per year in a better managed state. As people are fleeing the high tax states, they are driving up the home values in the lower tax states.

DixonSyder
7 months ago
Reply to  Poor Taxpayer

Never leaving because they keep on giving me huge raises on my $168,000 pension

Susan
7 months ago

Point is, if government is going to fail taxpayers (see ides unemployment application fail rate, e.g.), then taxpayers need to think of methods to survive government. Fast.
Self sufficiency should not be a matter of scorn and derision. Scorn and derision are tools used to keep subjugated classes working one more day, at their own expense.

UnclePugsly
7 months ago

Gold, Bitcoin, seeds, and a gun with lots of ammo.

Fred
7 months ago

Earlier against the battle of COVID-19 the Surgeon General said that the viruses presence in the USA was our “Pearl Harbor”. At what point do we get to our “D-Day”? There doesn’t seem to be any problem with the United States sending in our youth, with a bright future, to die for a cause however the prospect of this disease affecting those that are immunocompromised is what’s crippling our decision making.

Dave Ziffer
7 months ago
Reply to  Fred

Remember that when politicians send “our youth” somewhere to die for a cause, that they are mostly sending everyone else’s youth. For the most part, their own youth get jobs that make for great PR but involve little or no actual combat. The only reason we haven’t had hundreds of millions slaughtered in wars since 1945 is that now, for the first time in human history, they will get their own asses fried.

Susan
7 months ago

Self defense strategy against predatory sociopathic government #1: Those with actual skills and actual willingness to work do NOT need to accept fiat currency or promissory notes from third party payment intermediaries. For example, nurses and doctors could easily shift to direct-pay models. Let those who support third party payment seek healthcare provision from traditional sources who still accept those forms of payment; and even “insured” patients (de facto cash payers due to deductible and co-pay) could pay for themselves and then seek reimbursement from their third party financial contractors AKA “insurance “. This would shift an enormous expense and… Read more »