Ted joined Jeff Daly to discuss why Illinois’ property taxes are such a national outlier, why Illinoisans are forced to pay the high, guaranteed salaries, benefits and pensions of the government class, why Illinoisans aren’t getting their money’s worth for what they pay, the teachers unions’ influence over elections, and more.
Read more from Wirepoints:
- $30 million over four years: How teachers unions influence Illinois politicians
- One tricky way Illinois politicians are hiking your taxes
- We must focus on cutting the cost drivers of Illinois property taxes if we’re ever going to deliver relief to taxpayers
- Chicago’s crime numbers must have DNC organizers sweating
Audio and summary 
If this bill passes, say goodbye to local control over all Illinois parks and expect to see open drug and alcohol use, needles, no sanitation and fire hazards, but no ordinary park users.
Go read the budget expenditures of your local suburb, and it will shock you. Department heads and their senior administrators get take-home cars, free gas, free car insurance, credit cards for meals and largely unmonitored expenditures, junkets to out-of-state conventions and meetings (mostly taxpayer-paid excursions w/little genuine purpose). The suburban municipal employees also generally are paid higher wages than private-sector equivalent positions for same skill-set and responsibilities, plus many more paid personal, holiday and vacations days which accrue, and pensions based on their last years’ wages rather than average total, vested in pensions funds with only a few years service.… Read more »
Why can’t public employees work for lousy wages and benefits? The nerve of these people.
Nobody’s forcing them to work as public employees. If they don’t like what’s offered, find a better job. The nerve of some people to believe they are entitled to the job.
They could do that. They also can exercise their constitutional rights and negotiate.
Nobody is forcing you to pay for these public employees. If you don’t like the taxes and services that are offered, find a better state.
“find a better state” Which would be any other state than Illinois, by the way.
Stupid retort, PPF.
I didn’t say “work for lousy wages/benefits”. Why do you think public employees should be paid substantially greater wages/salaries/benefits than private-sector employees for same work? Why the excessive compensation? Public-sector employees aren’t uniquely competent workers, and many public-sector employees are frankly less productive than equivalent private-sector workers who face consequences for poor work performance, absenteeism, wage-theft, etc.
Almost half of CTU teachers are absent from their assigned classroom, on average regular-attendance CPS school day, per news article posted on Wirepoints several days ago. Assume you think this is ok.
“If you have a case where the law is clearly on your side, but the facts and justice seem to be against you,” said an old lawyer to his son, who was about to begin the practice of the law, “urge upon the jury the vast importance of sustaining the law. ”
Haven’t we heard enough from teacher unions and their advocates to understand that we have just such a case on our hands? They have neither facts nor justice to sustain their case, so they vigorously argue the law.
If that’s what helps you accept the reality that people can and will collectively bargain for their wages then go for it. The voters disagree with you.
Some Chicago voters may disagree.
But for 500 years, people have understood that Shylock was the villain of The Merchant of Venice, not the hero.
Why was my post deleted Mark? There was also a post showing as spam that was under my screen name.
Dunno. Sometimes the spam software god works in strange ways. We found it and it is live now.
All comment boards are toxic, but at least this one isn’t manipulated and censored like Cap Fax’s board.
Here is some info on pensions from BGA. It says there is only 45% of the money needed for retirees. So far everyone has still received their checks. There is at least $60B in assets at the TRS alone but still far from being fully funded. I wonder if the lack of interest from pols has anything to do with waiting for inflated $$$ to solve the problem. Not an expert at all on this but nothing ever said about all the costs involved with the many hands the money goes thru before it reaches the pensioner.
https://www.bettergov.org/2024/04/18/testimony-by-bga-president-david-greising-before-the-house-personnel-pensions-committee/
My property taxes pay for all kinds of things that I don’t directly benefit from. Same could be said for most tax dollars. I get it though. Just drumming up the jealousy in your readers that some people have pensions and they don’t. It’s not fair. lol
PPF,
Just more yada yada from people like you and the Illinois public sector unions.
I voted with my feet over 20 years ago and left Taxistan. Lots of reasons but a big part of my decision was getting out of a corrupt high tax Big Blue state totally controlled by the Dems.
My smart financial decision has enabled me to bank approx. $200K which I can spend on a lot of things I enjoy instead of supporting the bloated and greedy Illinois public sector union toads.
Da Judge
Yes, it isn’t fair and can’t last much longer.
No, it is fair and their pensions will continue. The state promised a pension in exchange for labor. Your jealousy is irrelevant.
Math is not irrelevant, and when the unsustainable world economy crumbles sooner than later your pension is done for. Enjoy. Also, get a life. You have already posted 100 comments today. Only a total loser would post as much as you do on here. You and OzRetard Willy must be related. Just remember, math always wins, and your pension will lose.
Math isn’t but his opinion about fairness is irrelevant. Just remember taxes will be raised and pensions will be paid first.
Taxes can only be raised so much in the highest combined tax state in the country, so no, taxes cannot always be raised. It’s already to the point they cannot be raised much more, even more so in this inflationary environment. But you enjoy whatever taxes they have left to raise before your pension goes under due to math, because I don’t live in Illinois anymore. I read on here because I have family left in Illinois that sooner or later will move like everyone else. You trying to get to a 1,000 comments today? Your life truly must be… Read more »
“ Your life truly must be awful to post so much on here”. Should I suppose you feel the same about debtsor’s know-it-all-postings on nearly every political topic imaginable? Probably not. You’re likely a fan.
I do, they are both idiots with no lives.
And yet you are arguing with me. What does that say about you? lol
I think people that move away from Illinois and spend time commenting here because a statement doesn’t align to their beliefs are pathetic. Different strokes.
Tell your family to continue paying their taxes. Tell them not to worry when their taxes are raised as they can only be raised so much and we are almost there.
I have posted four comments today, you have posted 400. Get a life loser. My family will leave like everyone else in time, and they won’t care about your pension being cut, just like I won’t. I read articles here and almost never comment because I have a life, but that obviously isn’t the same for you. Try to find a hobby or two instead of avoiding your ugly wife and posting comments here all day because you have nothing better to do. Enjoy the pension collapse heading your way.
Well we know you can’t count. 100 then 1000 and now 400. I love it when people can’t dispute my comments with a cogent argument. It just lets everyone know their inferior intellect. You can’t dispute what I’m saying other than “math”. It’s also extremely sad that someone with a different opinion than you causes you to melt down. Some people truly can’t handle life outside their bubble. Over 90% of the comments on this site align with conservatives but just a few comments this morning that differ than your world view upsets you. Your solution? Try to silence dissent… Read more »
1,000 comments a day, idiot. The day isn’t over. You are at 400 now and will surely be at 1,000 by the end of the day. You cannot dispute math, and so you resort to saying taxes can always be raised, which they 100% cannot. You are an idiot though, so you may actually believe that. Once again, try talking to your ugly wife today and not commenting so much, just avoid looking at her of course. And just know I am enjoying you worrying so much about your doomed pension, even though you try and act like you are… Read more »
I have no worries about my pension at all. I have worries that unless the state starts funding pensions we will continue to spend money on other feel good initiatives while driving up the long term costs of pensions.
Remember, Detroit pensioners received 95.5% of their pension. You wailing about pensions going bust doesn’t scare anyone.
Oh, and keep responding to me. I enjoy keeping you from your hot wife and wonderful life. lol
The fact remains your pension is doomed, and sooner than later. Now push your wife’s fat out of the way so you can see your screen to make comment number 500 for the day! Oh you are very much scared, it is partially why you comment so much on here, other than having no life of course.
Please pick a different name. We are getting complaints about rudeness and personal insults, and your name is an example.
PPF – you keep stating taxes will be raised. Maybe there is some headroom at the state level for state pensions, but the epicenter of the problem is on Chicago. The City has fewer sources of revenue than the State. And they can’t even raise a modest amount (relatively) under the Bring Chicago Home initiative. Whatever way one slices it, there is simply insufficient trust over how the city manages money to reliably raise revenue. The assessor wants to raise property taxes on commercial real estate but that market is very impaired and commercial rates are among the highest in… Read more »
You aren’t responsible for your private sector neighbor’s retirement, why should he be responsible for yours? Why should the state allocate billions of dollars to the few/the state pension participants instead of to the many/students, elderly, handicapped? Why is it fair that public sector unions bribe politicians via campaign donations to write favorable pension laws such as adding the 3% COLA to increase pension benefits yet pension benefits can’t be reduced? Why is it fair that the writes of the impaired or diminished clause said that the intent of the law was to not reduce current pension payments and not… Read more »
“Why should the state allocate billions of dollars to the few/the state pension participants instead of to the many/students, elderly, handicapped?” The state owes that money. They don’t have the option to not pay. If you really want more money for students, elderly and handicapped, you will need to raise more taxes for those line items. Check the constitution for more information. “Why is it fair that public sector unions bribe politicians via campaign donations to write favorable pension laws such as adding the 3% COLA to increase pension benefits yet pension benefits can’t be reduced?” They don’t bribe politicians.… Read more »
No, it looks like you are the one who is stuggling to understand on so many levels. The state could amend the Constitution. Check the Constitution, it allows for that. We also are taxed too much. You obviously struggle with that. Sounds like a you problem. They most certainly do bribe politicians. Once again, your struggle is real. Please show me where in the Constitution it allows for benefits to be increased. The ISC most certainly did NOT rule the only way they could have. What they did, and you struggle to realize, is they INTERPRETED the way they did… Read more »
“The state could amend the Constitution. Check the Constitution, it allows for that.” You still need to get past the US constitution and the contracts clause. Good luck with that. But go ahead and spin your wheel with that. Should keep you busy for the next few decades. “We also are taxed too much.” People said that on this site before JB was elected and we have more taxes now. Plenty more to raise. “Please show me where in the Constitution it allows for benefits to be increased.” Wow, you really are a special kind of ignorant. Nothing in the… Read more »
You must have skipped law school the day they taught law. If the US Constitution was an impediment to changing the state Constitution then there would have never been pension amendments. But go ahead and keep listening to JB the Hutt spew his nonsense about the contract clause. You obviously don’t realize that Constitutions are to protect all citizens, not just the proletariats/useful idiots that are in bed with the electorate. Could you be more obtuse? Pro tip, get out of your own self serving echo chamber. Yes, the corrupt ISC with a clear vested inteest and conflict of interest… Read more »
You are putting YOUR spin on the state’s non-diminishment clause for protecting the retirement annuities of IL public sector workers. The framers could have inserted that meaning into the clause but did not do so. Whether that was on purpose or accidental matters not a whit. The written words are what’s subject to interpretation rather than your wished-for version of them.
Wrong, Jimmy. Want to try Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change?
I noticed you are unable to provide any facts that dispute the decision. Maybe point to any evidence that states the framers agreed with your opinion.
James,
Not only did they not include that language, notes from the constitutional convention showed that the intent of the amendment was to also protect the terms of how the pension was calculated on their FIRST DAY of employment. This was no accident or something that was overlooked but rather intentional.
“You couldn’t be more wrong. The intent was to not reduce any benefits that they were already receiving ie, they couldn’t reduce your monthly pension payment that you were already receiving…there is your diminish language.” Completely wrong and had been ruled on decades ago. You just enjoy putting your ignorance on full display. The protections afforded to such benefits by article XIII, section 5 attach once an individual first embarks upon employment in a position covered by a public retirement system, not when the employee ultimately retires. See Di Falco v. Board of Trustees of the Firemen’s Pension Fund of the Wood… Read more »
PPF, spare us your usual argument about the Contract Clause. You know full well that established law allows for changes that are necessary and reasonable. It’s a self-limiting concept, meaning that established exceptions to the Contract Clause are a protection against excessive changes, which you should be happy with, and it’s not a bar against all changes.
You want to ignore the words of the ILSC about how pensions are protected by the contracts clause. You keep pretending that they didn’t also decide this case on that very clause. Quit pretending that it was only based on the pension clause. “In addition, because the state’s self-interest is at stake whenever it seeks to modify its own financial obligations, the United States Supreme Court has made clear that it is not appropriate to give the state’s legislature the same deference it would otherwise be afforded with regard to whether the impairment is reasonable and necessary to serve an important… Read more »
The ILSC will be bypassed when Illinois collapses and defaults on debts. Then it will be a federal issue. Illinois will be in far worse shape than anything ever seen pension wise, and the cuts will be large, not Detroit sized. You have admitted pension cuts could be something that could happen to Mark before, so don’t pretend to not know this now. I also turned you in to Mark and Ted for how you insult people on here and lie about things, such as saying taxes can always be raised or that the pensions can’t be cut federally. I… Read more »
That made my day. You turned me in? lol. OK Karen.
Very deceptive PPF. The US Supreme court has never ruled on anything on IL pensions. The corrupt IL court of course would never allow any cuts, no matter what. The reality is when things get bad enough the US court is allowed to make pensions cuts that are reasonable and necessary for the state to continue to function. That is fact, and if you dispute that, you are lying or can’t face reality that a state won’t be allowed to collapse permanently. Taxes can only go so high, and only so many cuts can be made. Police powers and overall… Read more »
“The reality is when things get bad enough the US court is allowed to make pensions cuts that are reasonable and necessary for the state to continue to function.” Bad enough is the key to your point. The state has vast taxing authority as well as the ability to cut other spending. We have plenty to cut from a budget that went from 38 billion to 52 billion in just a few years. We also have the ability to raise even more revenue. The police powers argument was made and the ILSC rejected it. “They will let the feds clean… Read more »
Police powers will be allowed federally. As you can see and deep down know, the ILSC doesn’t matter when things get bad enough. The US can’t bail out all the pension funds of all states. The US is already on the brink of debt collapse, and with inflation due to said unsustainable debt, well if that default occurs in time which we are all heading for, you won’t be getting one cent of your pension. IL certainly can cut education funding, but that is about it. Social service funding is already pathetic. After that, there really isn’t much. Laying off… Read more »
Well, I respectfully disagree. Now you will just need to go out and elect enough republicans and democrats to form a super majority and have them draft an amendment that can get passed by the voters and then pass a bill reducing pensions and then hoping that the courts see it your way.
As I’ve said, good luck with that. Over 60% of the Republicans in this state voted for the pro union amendment 1. You’ve got your work cut out for you.
There is no need for an amendment once the state collapses. I have never said a word about an amendment. The reality is when the state has no credit and is about to default on debt or does default it will be a federal issue to fix. The world economy is in big trouble, and so is the US dollar. I must go. Have a good day.
Well then, nothing for you to do. This will all take care of itself.
PPF you’re not wrong. People get upset that you’re right. The problem I have is that you’re like the guy pointing to the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision saying, “Look, Look! The highest court in the land said slaves are property, now leave me alone!” A massive civil war was fought in the years afterward and constitutional amendments were passed to address the Dred Scott decision several years later. The pensions are obviously not slavery but you approach the pension issue with the same blindness as the confederacy approached slavery. Sure, you can take a win, and point to the… Read more »
Debtsor, My point for pointing out the decision as well as the limitations to make changes is to get people to understand that this issue isn’t going away by electing someone who promises some type of magical “reform” that won’t incur more taxes. I would prefer that the state actuarially fund the pensions. The political reality has them spending money on other feel good initiatives such as the current border crisis. Also, paying people what you contractually promised them because you want to spend the money on other things is nothing like slavery. You’re entitled to your opinion but that… Read more »
Funny, you never call it just a piece of paper when using it to defend the 2nd amendment. I’m sure the gun control lobby would love to just ignore that piece of paper. I mean after all, what’s more important, the lives of children or a piece of paper. What’s next, free speech? We can’t have those hateful words hurting others over a piece of paper.
The political reality surrounding guns is far different nationally then Illinois’s pensions or the national opinion of slavery in 1864. The political reality is that despite a handful of states going full confiscation of guns, many other states are going the opposite way and allowing greater guns rights. Illinois is surrounded by states that all have far more permissive gun laws than Illinois and that’s what the people in those states want. But the pensioners in IL have only themselves and the political class on their sides, which is important for sure, but it won’t be enough to save pensioners… Read more »
You better hope that doesn’t happen. Somehow I think your house, car and 401k/IRA would not be safe in the name of equity. I think the billionaire class may have a thing or two to say about that.
You are correct again. They are not safe in the name of equity. As Steve Sailor points out, “”When they demand equity, they mean your equity in your home.”
The commies are in charge an no one is safe. They soon turn on each other. Your pension, my home, our schools, none of it is safe.
Wrong and you know it. After the necessary state constitutional amendment, the only litigation would be in federal courts on the federal Contract Clause. There, they do recognize the exceptions for necessary and reasonable changes, and what the ILSC said would not mean squat.
Mark is 100% correct.
Wrong Mark. The ILSC was referring to the US Supreme Court with those words. Just because you don’t want taxes to increase doesn’t mean it’s reasonable and necessary. Like I said though, good luck with that. It’s not going to happen but it clearly provides you hope.
The ILSC can say whatever it wants, but they won’t be ruling on squat federally. They can’t put words in the US courts mouth. Law allows pension cuts federally for the overall good that is both reasonable and necessary. That is the reality you have admitted to before and pretend to not know now. When things get bad enough, the ILSC will have zero say.
Nothing guarantees the federal courts would even step in. Remember, even if they do, cuts would be small. Seems like a lot of work for such a small dream.
FYI, your screen name is a flat out lie. You better turn yourself in. A small cut is your only hope even with the federal courts.
Once again, they would if things get bad enough, and they will get bad enough. Good day.
When? People have been saying this for decades.
PPF – federal courts under the Supremacy Clause need not worry about the Illinois courts. They would in an insolvency proceeding be interpreting federal law. The reality is that the Illinois political class is not going to consent to letting a City like Chicago enter federal proceedings. Even though historically pensioners get treated well (Promesa, Detroit) they won’t take the chance of putting the City out of their clutches, especially since the City may have a largely asset less bankruptcy and there would be added doubt over the outcome.
We agree on many things Willowglen, including this statement. I also agree that Chicago is in much deeper trouble than the state as a whole. The state has vast taxing authority and is clearly not afraid to use it. The city will eventually force the states hand to either help them financially or allow them to seek bankruptcy. My bet is the state funneling more money to the city.
You will die of old age first. No chance of this ever happening. Illinois is run by the public sector unions.
Wish you were wrong, but the law is the law.
Destroyed Illinois, but public sector unions do not care. So many move out of state as soon as they can.
The only way not to get run over by the pension taxman is to leave the state ASAP.
I agree, paying pensions is fair in that they were promised. What I’d not fair is not ending pensions for new govt workers and public employees after a certain date and offering those folks a 401k with matching which has been the real world since the 80’s. What is not fair is not adjusting to modern actuarial reality that has people retiring after 25 years and collecting for 35+ years. What is not fair is the 6% by law kicker to teacher salaries their final 4 years and basing pensions off the last 4 years. What is not fair is… Read more »
And, PPF, the 6% kicker for teachers has a compounded affect on their pay but really it compounds for the rest of their lives because of a higher base pension and then the compounded affect of cost of living increases. What a racket,
The 6 percent or prior 3 percent cap can be changed at any time. That’s up to the current legislature and governor going forward. That cap involves when school districts have to start paying for the additional pension costs. Some argued that 3% is too low and the state increased it to 6 percent. In the past, these teachers would sometime get 20 percent raises with no costs involved for the local district other than the immediate salary increase. My point is that you may not like 6 percent but it could also be higher.
6% is the benchmark free from penalties. Above 6% penalties kick in but many people get much more than that especially in administrators like school supers. Rockford school district leads Illinois in pension penalties for spiking above the 6% legal limit. So far penalties are over $3M and counting. Many received 15% or more for the spiking increases.
https://readlion.com/education-pension-spiking-costs-continue-to-hit-illinois-taxpayers/
“What I’d not fair is not ending pensions for new govt workers and public employees after a certain date and offering those folks a 401k with matching which has been the real world since the 80’s.” I agree it’s not fair. Not fair to the tier 2 members that are paying more into pensions than the costs, with the additional payments being used to shore up past promises. I wouldn’t be opposed to switching new employees to 401k and social security but understand that it would cost more than we are paying now for those new employees. Although at least… Read more »