Senator Martwick At It Again, Leading Move To Increase Chicago Pension Liability By Billions – UPDATED – Wirepoints

By: Mark Glennon

Illinois State Senator Robert Martwick (D-Chicago) is pushing ahead with legislation that, according to a Bloomberg report, could increase Chicago’s police pension obligations by another $3 billion in total through 2055. An earlier city estimate put the cost at $2.1 billion. Senate Bill 2105 would do that by removing a birthdate restriction on eligibility at age 55 for a 3% automatic annual increase in retirement annuity.

Where would Chicago get money to cover the additional liability? No answers.

It’s a repeat of a similar bill Martwick championed for the Chicago firefighters’ pension, which was signed into law by Gov. JB Prtizker in April. As reported by Crain’s on Wednesday, the cost to Chicago of that new law has now been estimated at $700 million, which will require additional annual contributions from city taxpayers estimated to start at $16 million in 2022 and ramping up to reach $24 million by 2055.

For that earlier legislation, too, there is no source available to cover the additional liability. That prompted Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot to complain bitterly about the legislation, particularly in private emails and messages reported by the Chicago Tribune. “When that pension fund collapses, I will be talking a lot about this vote,” she wrote to Senate President Don Harmon.

Chicago’s police and firefighter pensions already are in utterly abysmal shape, having just 18% and 23%, respectively, of the assets their actuaries say they should have. Together with two other pensions sponsored by the city, Chicago officially reports about $33 billion of unfunded pension liabilities. But using more realistic assumptions, Moody’s estimates the total unfunded liability at $60 billion. Moody’s also reports the city of Chicago’s total debts as a percentage of annual revenues are at 735%, the highest of any major city in the country.

State Senator Robert Martwick (D–Chicago)

Martwick’s reasoning for the two bills, as described by Crain’s, is that increased benefits are routinely granted voluntarily, so they might as well be codified into law with the costs reflected in the pensions’ accounting. No word on why a better option wouldn’t be simply not to grant the increases.

But the hypocritical circularity in that is brazen. It’s Martwick himself who has routinely sponsored those voluntary changes favoring the pensioners that the state did not have to grant. Actuary Elizabeth Bauer documented that in a Forbes column. As she concluded:

It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious — a legislator claiming that “they’re going to do it anyway,” when it’s he himself who had been spearheading the increase, is exactly the sort of action that is, compounded over and over, the reason why Illinois is in exactly the straits it is in.

It’s as if Martwick is saying, “We rob banks routinely so you might as well make it legal for us to rob banks.”

As a state representative in 2018, Martwick was nationally ridiculed for proposing that Illinois issue a massive $100 billion bond and give the proceeds to pensions. A “moonshot” proposal, it was called. The idea died when lawmakers eventually figured out that nobody would buy such a bond.

But Martwick’s proposal apparently called for a promotion. He moved up to the Senate and now chairs the Senate’s pension committee.

*Mark Glennon is founder of Wirepoints

This column was updated to add the paragraph citing the Forbes column and Martwick’s record on granting earlier pension increases.

Read more about Illinois’ pension crisis:

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WPS
2 years ago

I know policeman who were born in 1965 but only worked 20 years and get the 3% COLA due to their age. I know others who were born in 1966 but devoted 30+ years to the city and only get the 1.5% COLA beginning at age 60. The retirees who were born in 1965 will end up with a larger pension than people who worked 10 years more. Age discrimination!!

Being Had
2 years ago

The voters who are aware of why they’re voting for public union representatives continue to think government workers deserve compensation that hasn’t been in step with weak economic growth.  At the same time, the state and localities have struggled to provide government services and handle investments.  So, compensation isn’t and hasn’t been in step with quality.  There happens to be plenty of elected public union reps in Springfield and it shows.

The arrangement calls for taxpayers to keep paying higher and higher costs of debt servicing for the government’s ever increasing debt.

Mike
2 years ago

Senator Martwick wants to make the 3% simple COLA constitutional for Chicago Police born after 1966. Right now the law is 1.5% simple interest for Chicago Police born after 1966. But the date has not always been 1966. The ILGA has been passing a new law every so many years moving the date. The Illinois Pension Code has a ridiculous number of nuanced laws such as this for the various pension funds. And Illinois has more public sector pension fund types (Chicago Police, Chicago Fire, IMRF, State University, etc.), each having its own set of rules, than just about any… Read more »

Mike
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Meaning the benefit hike from those born after 1966 from 1.5% simple interest to 3% simple interest would be constitutionally protected by the pension sentence added to the state constitution on December 15,1970; instead of having to rely on new state laws every so many years to hike the benefit.

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

How is it that public pensioners who have left Illinois, and are no longer subject to its laws and Constitution, still enjoy the benefit of the non-impairment clause?

To use PPF’s analogy, they are the diners who ran out on the tab. And they are still dining.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

The benefit they enjoy is not just from the impairment clause of the Illinois constitution. It also comes from the US constitution. Pensioners aren’t still dining. They are collecting the rest of their payment that was agreed to by their employer in exchange for their services. When they leave the state they are not costing the state as they are not using any services. If a bondholder is based out of state are they dining or are they receiving money that is owed to them? Do they only hold rights to their money if they live in Illinois? Your logic… Read more »

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

Funny I don’t notice anyone invoking the U.S. Constitution when it comes to discussing IL public pensions. The claims all rest on the impairment clause. So no pensioner (public or private) ever had their pension reduced, because it is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution?

And of course bondholders never had a tie to Illinois, and are not relying on the IL Constitution to support their claim.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

“Funny I don’t notice anyone invoking the U.S. Constitution” I suggest you go and read the ILSC decision. You not hearing about it means absolutely nothing. This argument was rejected by the circuit court. We reject it as well. As a preliminary matter, the precedent on which the State relies does not involve the pension protection clause under article XIII, section 5. It arises, instead, under article I, section 16 (Ill. Const. 1970, art. I, § 16), and that provision’s counterpart in the United States Constitution (see U.S. Const., art. I, § 10, cl. 1). Those provisions, which are popularly referred to… Read more »

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

You are of course correct that I had not actually read the decision, and you gave me a deserved reprimand. But then I have a sincere question: if this legal reasoning is correct, why was it necessary to add the non-impairment amendment to the Constitution, if the contracts clause already covered the concern?

Last edited 2 years ago by ProzacPlease
Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

Prior to the 1970 Illinois con con, most public employees were part of “mandatory” pension plans. They were considered “mandatory” if an employee was required to join the pension plan as a condition of employment. They were considered “optional” if they were not required to join the plan. The “optional” plans carried with them contractual rights while the mandatory ones were considered as “gratuities”. The plans that were considered gratuities could be altered at any time even though an employee could have paid in their entire career. It was merely at the discretion of the government and pensions could be… Read more »

jajujon
2 years ago

This is all so much in the weeds without adding value. While pensions are so severely underfunded and politicians make no attempt to increase funding, you argue ad nauseam about the impairment clause, blah blah blah. A constitutional amendment is necessary to reform pensions. Promises made by politicians have been unsustainable for a long time. While I have some sympathy for public sector retirees, a painful compromise is in their future – more from taxpayers, less to pensioners, the noose for politicians (hopefully). Spend time rallying support for a constitutional amendment. And if you want to minimize the impact on… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

“A constitutional amendment is necessary to reform pensions.” Remember that even if you were to somehow magically pass this amendment, nothing changes. Pensions are still contracts and still protected. “the precedent on which the State relies does not involve the pension protection clause” People continue to overlook the very clear words in that decision. Removing the pensions clause does not remove the contracts clause. Even if passed, the debt would be the very same right after Election Day. “politicians make no attempt to increase funding” You think politicians are making any attempt at an amendment? Hahaha. You need a Governor… Read more »

Thee Jabroni
2 years ago

you seem to take pride in bleeding the taxpayers,wont respond to you again,enjoy your ramen noodles in a couple of years

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Thee Jabroni

I take pride in pointing out you can’t steal from pensioners just because you don’t want taxes to go up. I’m glad you bought your townhome less than two years ago and will continue to pay property taxes to fund these pensions. You decided to invest in property in Illinois knowing that this debt must be paid. That’s on you Jabroni. I hope you are a man of your word and mean it when you state you will not be responding to my posts in the future. You clearly don’t have the intellectual capacity to have an intelligent discussion so… Read more »

debtsor
2 years ago

Hhaha you think IL residents are going to pay for lavish pensions in the future, I love these hearty Jelly Belly laughs!

Thee Jabroni
2 years ago

im waay more intellectual than you boy,bye,bye,enjoy your ramen noodles

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Thee Jabroni

Clearly an intellectual response. You have demonstrated that you are a liar that can’t keep his word. It’s on brand with your desire to steal from pensioners. No character or integrity Jabroni.

No need to eat ramen. We have you paying property taxes so we can eat surf and turf with a nice cab. Make sure you think of me with each property tax payment.

Last edited 2 years ago by Pensions Paid First
jajujon
2 years ago

This is one of many reasons why Illinoisans take flight. Our property taxes are second highest in the country and you feel entitled. Appalling.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Entitled to a contractual right? Yes. Just like bondholders.

jajujon
2 years ago

The contract clause is not untouchable and immune to change. Arizona’s constitution was very similar to Illinois’. Via an amendment passed on a bipartisan basis, they allowed pension plans to be diminished or impaired except for any plan participant whose salary or retirement benefit was less than the median salary or retirement benefit. So it can be done.

Political reality, however, doesn’t give hope our legislature has the cajones to do this. So the cancer will eat away at the host until it’s dead. And then so is the cancer. Retirees will wish something was done to save the host.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

“Retirees will wish something was done to save the host.”

You mean like Detroit where pensioners received a 5.5% cut? or maybe you mean like Puerto Rico where pensioners didn’t get cut at all even though the pension fund is completely dry? With cuts like that I’m sure pensioners are quaking in their boots. Illinois will be paying pensions even after the funds run dry. You and everyone else on this site knows it.

Pay your bills jajujon. You deadbeat.

Susan
2 years ago

Malignant narcissists have “won” Illinois. Capitulation is the only rational reaction. Only when there are no naively compassionate prey left will these predators face any hunger pangs or resistance from larger predators.

gio
2 years ago
Reply to  Susan

Indeed
The pathology of sentimental barbarism, as identified by Dan Proft, WP, and others.
It’s the learned helpless electorate. Our friends and family…the guy or gal in the mirror.
This is the government we deserve.
Sure there’s corruption/rigged games and so forth, but if only a marginal few regained to courage to plainly identify evil, malfeasance, decay, etc. and take some personal responsibility, perhaps we won’t have quite so painful and drawn out decline.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  gio

“This is the government we deserve.”

It’s the government THEY deserve. We’re just the victims.

James
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

That could be said by every side who ever lost an election, couldn’t it? That’s simply a function of democracy in America. The majority is the winner in most of what follows.

nixit
2 years ago

86 comments in 24 hours?! Dayum.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago

Throughout the past century, market forces have periodically placed significant pressures on public pension systems. The repercussions of underfunding those pension systems in such an environment have been well-documented and were well-known when the General Assembly enacted the provisions of the Pension Code which Public Act 98-599 now seeks to change. The General Assembly had available to it all the information it needed to estimate the long-term costs of those provisions, including the costs of annual annuity increases, and the provisions have operated as designed. The General Assembly understood that the provisions would be subject to the pension protection clause.… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Pensions Paid First
Mike
2 years ago

Unions provide campaign contributions, campaign assistance, and votes to elect legislators. Legislators return the favor with favorable legislation. Neither group was transparent to the public about the pension legislative benefit hikes. Legislation was buried on the ILGA website, shell bills galore, so the bills are hard to track and the contents of the bills often don’t match the title of the bill. Both groups were and are irresponsible by hiking benefits in the Illinois General Assembly while pensions are already underfunded. There is no good reason to hike benefits when pensions are already underfunded, and most of the pensions in… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike

You wrote a lot of words to argue with the ILSC decision. It’s not up for argument or debate. It’s final and none of what you wrote matters. The state owes the money.

Mike
2 years ago

Yes the legally corrupt state owes money for state constitutionally protected Ponzi scheme pensions that were repeatedly increased, enhanced and spiked by elected state politicians even though at the time of the hikes the pensions were already underfunded. The state and local governments owe money for public sector Ponzi scheme pensions protected by the state constitution. A bigger scam than Bernie Madoff whose investors were not protected by a State of Illinois constitution. Higher taxes for Ponzi scheme pensions whose benefits were repeatedly hiked by elected politicians year after year, decade after decade, even though at the time of the… Read more »

Fed up neighbor
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike

The empire will eventually collapse.

Freddy
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike

There’s one more entity to place blame which was never addressed and that is the Fed. If you look back to when the 3% compounding took effect the Fed fund rate was just over 8% so getting at that time 3% was reasonable but was never indexed to interest rates with a hard cap attached. Politicians took historical references as their basis but never considered that rates would go lower than 3%. At that time you could easily get 3-4% in interest for passbook savings and a little more for money market accounts (remember those?) https://www.macrotrends.net/2015/fed-funds-rate-historical-chart Scroll over chart to… Read more »

James
2 years ago
Reply to  Freddy

Freddy, as regards your last paragraph it seem redundant and really unnecessary to do what you’ve suggested because once the state agrees to a particular legal clause the assumption must be that it agrees to it without exception unless stated otherwise. If there is ambiguity in its meaning the doubt must legally favor the claimant as is the legal standard, I think.

Freddy
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Makes sense the way you put it but if we truly owe that debt then whatever state we move to that debt would follow us but it doesn’t. If we move to Wisconsin we assume that debt and are relieved of Illinois debt owed and I think they have a surplus so we may owe nothing not sure. Can you name any other debt where we could do that? With credit card-auto-student loans/etc that debt incurred follows us wherever we move to. because we signed papers saying we would agree to those terms. Why doesn’t the state just send a… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Freddy

The state owes the debt not the individual. The state merely collects taxes from current residents to pay the debts. As you noted, when you move to another state, the individual doesn’t owe Illinois but also assumes the expenses and debt of their new state. Now California floated some idea where they wanted to collect from people who moved out for several years. I don’t think that would ever fly. There is no reason to calculate the amount that each household or individual owes other than making sure people fully grasp the size of the debt. How much each individual… Read more »

Freddy
2 years ago

Total $$$ owed on pension funds shortfalls seems staggering but to put in perspective Elon Musk has a net worth of $243,000,000,000 all by himself. He has enough money to pay off the entire pension deficit of Illinois if it is $130B as some say with $103 Billion leftover for his trivial expenses. He can pay the entire Illinois budget of $40B for 6 years with $3B leftover. The entire budget. Everything. Unbelievable. Which makes me wonder when money will become worthless and all our discussions of deficits are in vain. In the meantime how do we talk Elon into… Read more »

James
2 years ago
Reply to  Freddy

There ya go! Maybe he could get legal eagles to create ways for him to get charitable tax deductions for the whole amount such that his net loss is maybe something like “omly” 50-60% of the amount given. His lifestyle wouldn’t change, and I bet he’d recoup most of it in a decade. Think of the good will for him and his businesses!

Freddy
2 years ago
Reply to  James

You’re right-He would get that back in a decade or so. Here’s another perspective on what a trillion dollars look like. Elon has 1/4th of all the pallets on the last picture.. Every bill on the pallets is $100
http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

James
2 years ago
Reply to  Freddy

I’d have to guess that your thoughts in the first first paragraph to Willowglen really are more complex than what’s generally reported as regards our individual part of the state’s public enmployee pension debt. All I’ve ever seen is the average cost per (legal or total?) resident and per household. It can be sliced and diced a few other ways as you’ve cited, but I think the intent is only to give a general concept rather than trying to break it down to those more specific categories. Now, regarding your 2nd paragraph to Willowglen I tend to agree with your… Read more »

NB-Chicago
2 years ago

take a look at all the pension bills where Martwick is chief sponsor, he’s the go-to-guy for all are under-compensated pub sec heroes.
https://www.ilga.gov/senate/SenatorBills.asp?MemberID=2970&GA=102

NB-Chicago
2 years ago
Reply to  NB-Chicago

The bottom line is the state is amending (but NEVER DIMINISHING) all the 100s &100s of ridiculous municipal pensions all the time with endless bills. The taxpayers have no way to keep up. You or the yokal-local mayor you elected have no say in the matter. Just pay-up, thats equity in the land of Lincoln

Mike
2 years ago

A major reason that public sector pensions in Illinois are underfunded is such legislative benefit hikes to underfunded pensions. That practice escalated after the rewritten State Constitution, which included a one sentence addition regarding pensions (pensions were not previously included in the State constitution), was passed by voters on December 15, 1970. “Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired.” Thus legislative benefit hikes to underfunded pensions cannot… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Mike
jajujon
2 years ago

It’s so easy to spend someone else’s money, right Sen. Martwick? Why aren’t Chicago police and firefighters protesting? At 18% and 23% funding, respectively, they and their unions should be outraged. Demand a duel approach: the city must monetize assets to fund pensions and the state must reform the pension system. These may be the only two remaining paths. Once Chicago follows Detroit into bankruptcy, it’ll be too late and pension haircuts will be the path.

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

I have to say AGAIN research AMENDMENT 1. It could be voted into the Illinois state constitution and matters will get much worse. Please don’t vote for it or you have no right to complain.

jajujon
2 years ago
Reply to  Marie

Amendment 1 should be defeated like the “Fair” tax amendment, but doing so does nothing to solve the existing pension problem that plagues the city and the state, unless it causes the politicians to see the errors of their ways.

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

You’re right, we already have enough problems we do not need to create any more. So we need to vote against AMENDMENT 1.

Pat S.
2 years ago

Had politicians funded pensions when and how they were supposed to, this conversation would be moot.

Riverbender
2 years ago
Reply to  Pat S.

Your post is dead on but as we know the unions supported candidates that offered bigger raises rather than funding pensions.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Pat S.

IL pensions are too lavish. It is both mathematically and politically impossible to fund them. No amount of taxation or political will exists to properly fund IL’s pensions. Anyone who disagrees or disputes this basic, fundamental fact, is in denial.

Denial <— you and PFF are here
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

If we vote to pass AMENDMENT 1. They will get everything and more they want. They will make it work on our backs spending more of our money. Each of us will pay for it and lose everything we have in the process.

Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  Marie

You won’t lose everything if you leave Illinois.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

The only denial is coming from those that don’t understand that pensioners will continue to be paid and taxes will increase.

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  Pat S.

Well the Edgar Ramp didn’t help. What does he care? I believe he’s collecting three pensions from the state now.

Ex Illini
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

Exactly right. If the pensions had been properly funded, it would have forced the difficult discussion 25 years ago. The private world dealt with this and traditional pensions disappeared, replaced by 401ks. People who complain about underfunding either don’t understand or are in denial.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Ex Illini

So let’s start actuarially funding them now. We need about 5-6 billion more per year. Let’s raise the flat tax by 1 point (about 4 billion) and start taxing services or retirement income. Make this money earmarked specifically for pensions. When people start complaining politicians can tell everyone they are finally being honest about the cost of pensions and public sector jobs. Then we can have those discussions we should have had 25 years (really 52 years) ago.

jajujon
2 years ago

Raise more taxes, that’s always the answer. We defeated a “fair” tax amendment, so your tax raising idea has no traction. But you don’t want to lower expenditures? Don’t demand a constitutional amendment? Don’t reform pensions? Think outside the box.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Defeating the fair tax amendment does not mean taxes won’t go up. They have already raised them since defeat. Cutting pensions because you don’t want to raise taxes is not an option. The Supreme Court has been clear about that. Moreover, no possible claim can be made that no less drastic measures were available when balancing pension obligations with other State expenditures became problematic. One alternative, identified at the hearing on Public Act 98-599, would have been to adopt a new schedule for amortizing the unfunded liabilities. The General Assembly could also have sought additional tax revenue.That the State did… Read more »

James
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

If lower taxes are what most voters really want as their highest-priority issue then every governmental service will start to be even less responsive to meet all of the practical services we have come to expect. Police, fire, road maintenance and construction, water sevices, schools, etc., will all start losing personnel and find it harder to recruit new personnel. Maybe you think that’s okay, but when the rubber hits the road on that kind of funding deprivation you and others of that inclination are sure to complain even more. You’re really asking to seriously deteriorate a good part of what’s… Read more »

Ex Illini
2 years ago

Politicians should tell everyone they’re being honest? They’re afraid to do that. And they’re afraid to tax retirement income as well, because they know it will drive even more people out of the state. Those old people still drive a lot of revenue in this state, so driving them out would have a significant negative impact on the state’s economy. Your solutions help you, but aren’t likely.

nixit
2 years ago

No raises until full actuarial pension payment is made. Can’t afford the payment, can’t afford the salary it’s based on.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

That would be legal but I’m not sure you could get it done with the current collective bargaining laws in Illinois. Will the voters support changing those laws? Even Republicans in the senate supported to enshrine collective bargaining into the constitution. Voters might if they saw taxes go up and other services cut because the full actuarial payment was made. I’m not familiar with any politicians that are running on that platform but at least it would be a serious idea.

nixit
2 years ago

Check out a trade labor contract. It will usually specify a rate increase that the union then decides how to allocate. Some of that increase goes to the trade’s base wage rate, some to pensions, some to training, etc. You should see how expensive the trade union pensions have gotten.

James
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

Who is that gets no raises—the legislators, the current employees or the retirees? I don’t think you mean the retirees nor the legislators since that clearly won’t work legally. If you mean current employees, then you are going to see huge numbers of them quit since raising the IL state income stream by 5 billion a year isn’t in the cards with the public set against it. If you expect them to work years or even decades on end to reach that income stream without any raises, then its unlucky new job candidates would even apply a short time into… Read more »

Marcia
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Actually, it should be no new raises for Tier 1 employees. If they do quit, then we can at least stop digging deeper

James
2 years ago
Reply to  Marcia

Hmm, that’s very interesting. As long as they are represented as a single entity by their unions it isn’t going to happen. But, the elders may go for it given the chance. They surely know how bad the financial stability is for their pension system. But, how “senior” do they have to be in practical terms to accept no raise for whatever active employment time they envision. I think even a four-year expection might well be considered unacceptable, but that’s only a guess. I can’t imagine someone with, say, even six years left of expected employment would voluntarily acquiesce to… Read more »

nixit
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Just a Tier 1 freeze. Tier 2 already paid so their share of the ARC is relatively cheap. Plus it won’t impact hiring because new hires are all Tier 2. And many in Tier 1 won’t leave because they’re too far vested to back out. And if they do, they’re replaced w/ cheaper Tier 2. They are all still getting paid. Pensions are just one portion of a compensation package. Instead of borrowing from the pension payment to fund salaries and their increases, now is the time to borrow from the salaries to pay back the pensions. And it’s all… Read more »

James
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

Maybe yiu have a workable idea legally, but getting it to pass any teacher vote may be a challenge, although generally there ought to be more low-to-medium seniority teachers than high seniority teachers presumably tilting the vote as you’d like. Still, the negotiators for the teachers generally are high seniority teachers who have long experience at stating what they want as well as why and how they want it. Your second paragraph is a little confusing, Sure, theoretically the overall money devoted to education can decrease in one expense category and increase in another such that the total cost doesn’t… Read more »

Marie
2 years ago

Where I live we were told by our city manager as long as the city could collect taxes from residents the city would not go bankrupt and pensions would be paid. The city wouldn’t be running very well because there wouldn’t be any money left to run it but the pensions would, and according to law, must be paid FIRST. So there you go. Voting is more important than ever. Please do not vote for AMENDMENT 1 in November 22. This whole situation will get much much worse. Please research AMENDMENT 1 and know what you’re voting against. If you… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Marie

“Must be paid FIRST”

Somebody gets it.

debtsor
2 years ago

Paid first until it isn’t

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

Too bad you can’t force residents to stick around to pay the taxes that will fund the pensions that will be paid first.

Last edited 2 years ago by ProzacPlease
jajujon
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

Force people to stay? Does life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness mean nothing? Even illegal immigrants from South America are free to leave their home country, cross multiple borders and be flown in the middle of the night to Long Island, Omaha, Philadelphia and elsewhere, while we should be shackled to a mismanaged state. Rethink that idea.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

Maybe just add a real estate transaction tax of 10%? We could allow that tax to be waived if another real estate purchase of equal or greater value is completed within the state. For those that cash out and leave the state we could collect one final large tax payment. Also, please read all the comments on this thread about people that can’t or won’t leave because it doesn’t make sense for them to move to a location where they will earn less money and pay more for a home that has risen in value compared to Illinois. No matter… Read more »

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

You really do see the rest of us as your slaves, don’t you?

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

No. I see people leaving the state in the same light as diners that run up the tab and try to leave. The debt is owed. We need to figure out additional taxes to be collected. Raising revenue from people leaving makes sense as their future vote is meaningless.

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

Young people just starting careers and families have “run up the tab”, and so should be penalized if they decide to leave? We all know who has voted consistently to “run up the tab”.

How about we tax income from public pensions, then put a huge exit penalty for public retirees trying to leave? That would assign the blame to those who ran up the tab.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

The plumber or electrician that charges for their services is not responsible for your debt just because you made the payment on the credit card. You are responsible and should pay. You also can’t have an exit tax but you can have a real estate transfer tax. “We all know who has voted consistently to “run up the tab”.” Yes. Those that voted for Thompson and Edgar along with democrats. Pretty much every voter in Illinois. The people that didn’t vote will still pay. That’s how this works. If you don’t want to charge the young family that purchases a… Read more »

debtsor
2 years ago

I like the idea of stiffing the grifters and when the time comes, stiff the grifters we will….

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

Promises promises. Until such time…more taxes will be increased.

Willowglen
2 years ago

PPF – really? A one percent flat tax increase? Maybe such a regressive tax will pass. But you have to be delusional to think the apparatchiks in Illinois will put the revenue toward pensions. Every tax increase in the last 20 years has been accompanied thereafter by growth in pension debt? Why would this time be any different, especially as the legislature leans left more than ever? Why not be honest? This crowd will borrow until they cannot any longer. Of course, this is exactly why the progressive tax amendment failed. Illinois politicians simply cannot be trusted.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Willowglen

Pension debt keeps increasing because we are not making our actuarial required contribution. Republicans believe that they just need some magical “reform” that can wipe away the debt. Democrats believe we just need to get the “evil” rich to start paying their “fair share”. The voters pick a side to root for when neither will fix the problem. Why not be honest you ask? The voters don’t reward that. So instead we get politicians that lie to us. Do you honestly see someone getting elected stating that we need to increase funding to pensions by 5 billion per year so… Read more »

Mike
2 years ago

The legislative benefit hikes and salary hikes, compounded over time, both dramatically affect the actuarial required contribution. Just as charging more to a credit card increases the credit card payment. Do not charge anything to a credit card unless you can pay the full balance. Alternatively, systemically charging more while not ever paying off the balance over decades results in massive interest. The Illinois Pension Scam. A state sponsored Ponzi scheme. If you want to know how not to operate a pension, study Illinois public sector pensions. If you want to operate a successful pension system, study Illinois public sector… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike

“The legislative benefit hikes and salary hikes, compounded over time, both dramatically affect the actuarial required contribution.” What’s your point? Do you actually think employees won’t get raises during their employment? Do you think actuaries didn’t know employees would receive raises? The actuaries know you need 5 to 6 billion more per year. “Do not charge anything to a credit card unless you can pay the full balance.” Great advice. Unfortunately our government doesn’t follow that advice. Even if they wanted to they would need to dig out of debt first. That requires more revenue. Find a candidate that promises… Read more »

Freddy
2 years ago

Curious- How is the debt owed by Illinois residents calculated? Is it based on income taxes and if it is then everyone owes a different amount. It is not based on the value of property because that value pays for current services with money allocated to pensions via some percentage of pension pickup. So do all the illegal immigrants coming to Illinois especially Chicago which is a sanctuary city realize they are assuming a debt that they have no idea that they are responsible for. Most likely since they are illegal they work for cash so they will not pay… Read more »

jajujon
2 years ago

Nothing like the diner dodging his/her responsibility. I’ve been a dutiful taxpayer. But I don’t need to blindly tolerate inept fiscal management. Bye.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

It certainly is true. You’re living in denial Mark. Even Puerto Rico’s bankruptcy allowed current pensioners to not get cut. Sure they threw out a potential cut of 8.5% but in the end they are being paid while bondholders have been massively cut. They have nothing left in the pension funds but yet they are still paying them. Keep dreaming Mark.

jajujon
2 years ago

PPF, you’re in denial. This from Crain’s last year: Detroit’s bankruptcy Plan of Adjustment gave it a decade-long reprieve from making regular pension fund payments, while cutting retirees’ pension and health care benefits and transferring current workers to a less generous retirement plan. The Plan cut cost-of-living adjustments for police and fire retirees by 55 percent and eliminated them for general retirees. The latter also saw base benefits cut by around 4.5%. Both had health care benefits sliced. You’re in dreamland if you think pensions are untouchable.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

I don’t think they are untouchable but just last to be cut. When they are cut they are only minimally impacted compared to bonds. State pension funds would be even more difficult to cut. Once tax increases no longer add more revenue then you may be able to cut a little. Maybe moving COLA from 3% down to 1.5% increases? You just keep waiting for that to happen.

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

They are untouchable in Illinois when the inmates are running the asylum. Why would a politician ever agree to decrease a pension when they’re getting a pension also and could be subject to the same new rules?

susan
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

No, PPF is correct. The social engineering of all Illinois professional and social classes needs to be thoroughly overt at this point. Make it known to naïve idiots who may still come here before they are trapped too. Medical professionals need to acknowledge the brutal predatory sociopathy of the organisms whose lives they are in servitude to prolong, and embrace that collaboration or flee. Church ladies should be made brutally aware the scorn and contempt with which Illinoisans like PPF view their actual charitable works. If Illinois teaches humanoids anything it is that ‘charity’ just means, pay yourself a lot… Read more »

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  susan

Compromise for the community? When bondholders demand payment that’s just smart. When pensioners demand their contractual payment they don’t have empathy or a willingness to compromise? You’re funny.

The debt is owed by the state and as such it will be spread across the entire tax base. That way everyone pays the debt. There’s your community spirit.

Thee Jabroni
2 years ago
Reply to  Mark Glennon

mark,why do you guys bother responding to PPF,hes a troll ,if everyone would ignore him maybe he ll go back to his moms basement and watch some more Spongebob

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Thee Jabroni

PFF makes a plausible argument. But he can still be wrong. Only time will tell because we are trying to look into the future.

Thee Jabroni
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

PPF probably an overweight slob who spends most of his day in the Mcdonalds drive thru

James
2 years ago
Reply to  Thee Jabroni

You’re such a classy guy.

Pensions Paid First
2 years ago
Reply to  Thee Jabroni

No, I’m more like the Iron Sheik.

Dan
2 years ago

Your pension is doomed and you know it. The fact you spend all day on here obsessing over the pensions and wasting your life commenting over and over on here is pathetic. You are very worried and it shows. Mark has forced you to admit multiple times now that you know in the end that pensions can and will be cut when reality takes over. Taxes can only be raised so high, and cuts only so deep. People are leaving the state more and more, bringing doom to you even faster. Math will win and you will lose. I am… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Dan
Stinky Sphincter
2 years ago

CPD & CFD pension COLA’s are not compounded like state pensions. The 3% annuity increase is based on the original amount of the annuity after 1 year of retirement and after reaching the age of 55. The 3% amount is added yearly after that and is not compounded. So a 60K pension, first COLA would be $1800 yearly, and that amount never changes. This is being posted for information purposes only. The pension plans are a requirement of being hired by the city, you cant opt out. It is what it is. The pensions were enacted by laws decades ago… Read more »

jajujon
2 years ago

A good friend recently retired as a 30+ year state employee. His contribution to retirement? About 1%. 99% funded by you and me. There is nothing in the private sector remotely close to that sweetheart deal, irrespective of social security. One of many reasons why you won’t hear state employees speaking out about underfunded pension liabilities. They hope to get theirs before the house of cards falls. But when it does fall, we’ll hear from all of them, expecting a bailout. So yea, it does have a lot to do with the employees.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Yes, the state’s lavish pension benefits are mathematically and politically impossible to fund. Every IL pensioner is a grifter in on the scam, hoping to grift what they can, before the entire scheme collapses.

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Stinky Sphincter
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

So someone, anyone who works for the state, a county or a municipality is a grifter? Wow you’ve got some serious anger issues to deal with. Who is supposed to do the jobs that these workers do? Who will be the cops, firemen, paramedics, clerks, snowplow drivers, librarians, nurses, etc, etc, etc. Many of these “grifters” work 30, 40 yrs and they are “grifters”? It seems to me that you are a jealous, angry person with a lot of personal failures in your life. See a mental health professional before it’s too late.

Paul Boomer
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

You sound as stupid as a former poster who identified as Poor Taxpayer. That goof posted a bunch if the same crap you are now spouting. Maybe you are the same person.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul Boomer

Hahahah look up the acronym DABDA
You are on letter D still.

Paul Boomer
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

And look up the acronym IDIOT, you have covered every aspect

Paul Boomer
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

As a side note to your statements, I noticed that you havent commented to Stinky about YOUR solution to issues that Stinky pointed to and your response to govt workers all being “grifters”. C’mon once upon a time called Poor Taxpayer grace us all with your knowledge.

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Again I’m telling you if we vote to pass AMENDMENT 1 in November of 22 this will get worse and cost us more. Heads up everybody.

James
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

White your overall arguments isn’t all that wrong in my view there is a big error in your 2nd sentence. IL governmental pensions are funded by a combination of active employee “contributions,” state and/or city pension funds and growth in the nderlying assets of the pension funds. That third category you failed to consider, and your statement that taxpayers fund 99% of IL public employee pensions, therefore, isn’t even reasonably close to correct.

James
2 years ago
Reply to  James

 “State and/or city pension funds” should have been written as “state and/or city pension funding contributions” (from local and/or state taxpayers, of course).

jajujon
2 years ago
Reply to  James

I’ll cede you that. But when the actual investment performance fails to match the inflated return assumptions, which it does often because the political wizards can’t base their assumptions in reality, then you can surely bet the taxpayers pockets are the source for the shortfall.

James
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

That’s the way it works for better or worse. That varies from one year to the next as does the stock market.

Stinky Sphincter
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Sorry but I cant follow the logic behind what you said. The employees/retirees are somehow responsible? Because they dont care? Of course they, along with city retirees care because it’s their future. Speaking for a friend who gets a city pension, after working for over 50yrs in a variety of part time jobs where SS was deducted they are now receiving a payout from SS of $36.00 a month, after Medicare costs and Part D insurance is paid. The original annuity was around $400 but the 60+% kicked in to reduce the SS benefit. The pension is the sole lifeline.… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Stinky Sphincter
ProzacPlease
2 years ago

If it doesn’t have anything to do with the employee, why the h*** do they keep voting so as to sweeten the pensions?

Last edited 2 years ago by ProzacPlease
nixit
2 years ago

“does anyone think that a 22 yr old is taking the job because 30yrs later they are going to get a pension? Believe me that’s not on their mind.”

I say that all the time when people think Tier 2 is causing a teacher “shortage”. Kids aren’t choosing majors or careers based on one state’s pension system.

Stinky Sphincter
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

Glad you get it

Mike
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

Actually the pensions are a major reason some do or do not take public sector employment in Illinois, which is why some are so passionate about the issue.

The teacher shortage, where it is present, is dependent on teaching specialty, geography, COVID, dysfunction in the schools, pensions, the ridiculous number of Federal and state laws and local school board policies and administrative rules, and other reasons.

Kids are not he only ones that are entry level teachers.

Some people change careers in their 20’s, 40’s, 40’s, or 50’s.

And there are parents that become teachers as their kids become older.

nixit
2 years ago

I get Martwick’s point (we grant it every time it comes up to vote anyway). Maybe it offers a more accurate assessment of the true pension liability. Remember, there are no takebacks in the pension enhancement game. Once it’s done, it’s done. It makes sense to not codify it and reassess as things change. When the state made COLA compounded in 1989, it did so because pensioners took a beating on inflation the previous 20 years. But they didn’t have to compound it for everyone. They could have easily limited it to anyone who retired prior to 1990. Then they… Read more »

Marie
2 years ago
Reply to  nixit

And if AMENDMENT 1passes once it’s enshrined in the Illinois Constitution it’s done. They can keep on doing this and even make it worse and we will be forced to pay for it. This is not a right-to-work Amendment it is a right to bankrupt you and Illinois Amendment.

Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  Marie

You will only be bankrupted if you stay in Illinois.
The smart ones are moving to Indiana.

Honest Jerk
2 years ago

Everyone can now start commenting here about their insane/corrupt Chicago/Illinois leaders. Personally, what I find more insane is that you all continue to live there.

Goodgulf Greyteeth
2 years ago
Reply to  Honest Jerk

I get weary of this sort of insulting, ad hominem response. “If you live in Illinois, quit complaining because you’re too stupid to leave.”

We live on land that’s been in our family for three generations, and I’d rather be shot as a bull than a steer.

Indy
2 years ago

Well tough luck. It’s time to do the right thing for your family and leave Illinois.
Staying and attempting a futile fight is not noble. It’s foolish.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Indy

Everyone’s situation is different. Illinois is not Detroit where everything collapses. Yes, someday it will turn into Detroit, but that’s a ways off. IL has still some of the best farm land in the world, we are a leading food manufacturer, we have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of high paying professional, managerial and corporate jobs, and there is a big freshwater lake at the north end of the state with water levels near the highest they’ve ever been. Sure, the government sucks, the politics suck, and the people mostly suck, but there are pockets of great… Read more »

Rob M
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

Mike Royko years ago coined a new motto for Chicago, Ubi Est Mia, or where’s mine. ”The people mostly suck?” Thats a terrible thing to say. The politicians mostly suck though, and the public employee unions, who are greedy and back clowns Martwick. Of course you should look out for yourself and your family first. It’s your duty to take care of your family. I still say we are being played by the political elites and the media. The culture war is a thing of their creation. Only a relative few diehards follow the news and sites such as this.… Read more »

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob M

The culture war is real, very real. The first step is admit what is happening, and you are clearly in denial what is happening all around you. These same elites you claim are making us fight are the same elites purging conservatives from corporate america, academia, non-profits, entertainment, industry, finance, the military. You’ve got your head stuck in the sand with some conspiracy theory that we are being played by these same elites. No Rob M, we are not being played, conservatives are being purged, and only one side is being purged. It’s time to stop denying reality and open… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Rob M
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

Conservatives are being purged from industry, finance, the military? I don’t buy it. The culture war is a media creation and is furthered by gutless, grandstanding politicians, who seek to keep us fighting.

I used to be a Democrat, but I think they are panderers and corrupt. I’ve been voting Republican the last few years. I can’t say I like most of them either. But I give the local unknowns the benefit of a doubt.

What you culture warriors are in denial about is the manipulation by Republicans like Trump, Greene, McCarthy, Jordan, etc… They’re not any better.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob M

Denial ain’t a river in Egypt. The culture war isn’t a media creation although it’s very much exploited by the media. Just use your common sense: one side wants to kill 9 month old babies in the womb, the other is against that one side wants to ban your guns, the other doesn’t one side wants to force your 5 year old child to take the jab that other countries on earth have determined to be too risky, the other doesn’t one side is requiring diversity statement (aka loyalty) to get jobs in tech, academia, corporate world, the other does… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Rob M
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

“Conservatives are the counter culture”, I’ll go there with you. I can’t disagree with that. Look at the ACLU, they go from defending Nazis right to march in Skokie to deplatforming those who disagree with them? When Bush said Dukakis was a “Card carrying member of the ACLU, I thought, what’s wrong with civil liberties? I think the ACLU has been hijacked by entitled affluent brats who are used to getting their own way. Dukakis should give back his card just as Bush sent back his NRA lifetime membership as he said they didn’t represent him. I don’t care what… Read more »

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob M

Evil scumbag doctors.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/445801-illinois-house-passes-bill-removing-late-term-abortion-restrictions

Illinois House passes bill removing late-term abortion restrictions
“In just a few short years, the Democrat party in Illinois went from advocating ‘safe, legal and rare’ to abortion on-demand, at any time, for any reason, and funded by taxpayers,” he said in a statement.

Rob M
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

Again, it’s scumbag pols who don’t represent the will of a majority of the population, Democrat or Republican. No one wants later term abortion. It’s got to be at least 7 to 10 against.

scumbag pols and scumbag journalists look for people like you have time on their hands and are new religion. Covid is a religion now, covid denial is another. This left right bullshit is like a religion. And who will lead us wretched masses out of the darkness? Donald J Trump!

Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

Not Detroit *yet*
When housing prices collapse enjoy the huge financial hardship inflicted on those that choose to remain in Illinois.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Indy

Housing prices will soon collapse everywhere. The massive increases in housing prices nationwide is not sustainable.

IL will collapse when the business community collapses. When the executives leave and take the corporations with them, then we can talk. In the meantime, it’s a slow attrition of disaffected residents upset with the awful terrible political climate.

Of course this all might collapse overnight as people rush to the exits. But not likely. We’ll likely just have more and more Joliets and Elgins and fewer Napervilles.

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

They will collapse much harder in Illinois.
Keep living in denial though. We’ll get the homeless tent ready for you.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Indy

Prices have already collapsed in IL. In many places, they can’t go much lower! We are still hurting from the 2008 foreclosure crisis.

Honest Jerk
2 years ago
Reply to  Indy

Those who understand the futility of Illinois yet remain don’t see themselves as part of the problem. That’s why I have little respect for people that allow themselves to be bullied by the city/state. The one thing, the only thing that residents can do to fight back is leave, but because that is a major hassle, they submit to the abuse.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Honest Jerk

I’m not part of the problem because I don’t vote for the problem. 40-45% of the state is not the problem. The state only became intolerable during the Trump area. Before that it was not great, but not unlivable. Bad governance is only one aspect of life in IL. IL has a lot of wealth, there are lots of employment and opportunities especially for the professional and managerial jobs. Earn what you can here, save your money, and move when the time is right, and the property market in other states deflates to historical levels. Just as a story that… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  Honest Jerk

Bingo. It’s like a women refusing to leave an abusive boyfriend.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Indy

That’s not a good analogy. It’s more like living in Peoria, and watching the city slowly decay around you, as your friends and family and neighbors leave, as third world immigrants move in to take their place… https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/2014/06/28/extra-peoria-s-hispanic-population/36925923007/ This is the story of all of IL, some at faster rates than others. It happened to the suburb I grew up in decades ago and it’s happening to the areas around where I live now. If I lived two towns over, I’d have left decades ago. But where I live now, it’s still recognizable. That may change, and then I’ll be… Read more »

con
2 years ago

Everyone has to make their own decision based on a unique set of circumstances.

Honest Jerk
2 years ago

Your choice. Enjoy the slaughterhouse.

jajujon
2 years ago
Reply to  Honest Jerk

Some people can’t afford to leave, or have elderly family members to care for, or have kids in school, or enjoy a state-tax-free retirement income, or have an underwater mortgage. A little less callous, please.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

The callousness is unwarranted but he is giving us all fair warning. I personally am heeding the warning and preparing. You best not be unprepared when the time comes for you to leave. Like I said above, my buddy left the state, and is now in a worse position, with a lower paying job and a high cost of housing, and a lower quality of life, in a very red state. Timing is everything, and my buddy may have sold his home for a good price here, but the sunbelt has gotten very very expensive lately, because most red state… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by debtsor
Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

That’s why the smart ones are going to Indiana. Not the sunbelt.

Honest Jerk
2 years ago
Reply to  debtsor

I accept that your personal Illinois pros still outweigh your cons. You are being very prudent positioning yourself to get out quickly when the balance shifts. My guess is most others here aren’t equally prepared and plan to ride the death spiral all the way down.

debtsor
2 years ago
Reply to  Honest Jerk

The political climate sucks here just as it does in every blue state. Everything changed during the Trump era. But prior to the Trump era, IL provided great value if you’re one of the lucky households in the top 20% of income. Sure the property taxes suck and a lot of the people suck too (because they vote D) but if you make a decent $$$ in this town, your money goes much, much farther than any other major city. Being middle class means being taxed into oblivion of course and that’s why most of them leave. But those big… Read more »

Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

That underwater mortgage will be even worse when you are foreclosed on and end up homeless.
The can’t afford to leave excuse is running dry.

Honest Jerk
2 years ago
Reply to  jajujon

Mostly just excuses. For example, did you know that other states actually have schools and health care?

ProzacPlease
2 years ago

Yes, I agree. It makes sense to fight. There is no guarantee that FL or TN won’t eventually succumb to the madness too. It is wrong to think you can just keep running and hiding. The craziness must be confronted and defeated.

Indy
2 years ago
Reply to  ProzacPlease

When you lose everything in your silly naive *fight* get back with us.
2nd Indiana will never succumb to the madness because of the state constitution enshrining that pensions must be properly funded @ that property taxes can’t go above 1% of a homes value.

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A statewide concern: Illinois’ population decline outpaces neighboring states – Wirepoints on ABC20 Champaign

“We are not in good shape” Wirepoints’ Ted Dabrowski told ABC 20 Champaign during a segment on Illinois’ latest population losses. Illinois was one of just three states to shrink in the 2010-2020 period and has lost another 300,000 people since then. Ted says things need to change. “It’s too expensive to live here, there aren’t enough good jobs and nobody trusts the government anymore. There’s just other places to go where you can be more satisfied.”

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